To a degree. I get that Iron Man’s c.M has more reach and better frame data (I think), and probably a better hitbox, but you can’t always link a launcher to his c.M, since his launcher whiffs off c.M at a certain point. Taskmaster’s c.M can always be linked to H, and then an EZ-Bake 1-mil combo, which is why I’d put Task’s c.M over Iron Man’s.
Yeah Haggar with a strong assist can actually have a chance of locking the opponent down long enough to amount some sort of offense. The main problem with Haggar is that his offense gets blown up by quick air normals and air throws since he has absolutely no way to close the gap on the ground that isn’t completely telegraphed. Haggar with an assist still isn’t the scariest thing ever yet but it’s plenty better than him derping in the back after you lose both of your characters. Tron in the back is still better than that shit.
Iron Man’s main issue is his ability to convert combos from stray hits. He has the gdlk hit boxes you need to be a good character but people generally agree that his abare is limited because of his lack of ability to instantly convert pokes into damage like Wolvie/Zero/Wesker etc. Whether people find ways around that issue or not we’ll see. Right now he’s basically a weak Zero but his pressure can be pretty constant once he gets in.
No this is why you would put taskmasters :h: over Iron Man’s launcher or :h:
I know that. Wesker’s version just happens to be completely braindead and effortless to the point of being ridiculous, that’s all I’m saying.
I think a much bigger issue is that his combos are more technical and harder to perform than Magneto’s, and yet unlike him and for example C Viper (who is incredible in the right player) you don’t have much rewards for learning him. The only real reason to learn him is for his assist, which can be replaced by Taskmaster or Doom’s assist.
It doesn’t matter how hard a combo is. Someone will eventually figure out how to do it consistently. The main issue IMO is definitely just the hurdle to make sure you hit confirm his combos correctly. Japanese players aren’t going to shy away from characters just because their combos are hard. They’re going to force you to deal with the fact that they will rarely drop the shit and you will eat the damage most of the time. It depends on how much damage he can get with said execution. If it’s like minimal compared to Magneto or Viper then that’s a bigger issue.
However hard it is to do his combos it’s not like mythical MVC2 Dhalsim shit so it’ll get figured out. Hard combos in this game are like the executionally difficult, but still tournament practical high damage stuff in other fighters. Too many people afraid of execution playing the game right now but the Japanese will show what happens when you spend more than an hour in training mode in a game where combos kill you. If all that is keeping Iron Man back is some more hours in training mode…get back in the danger room. Look at the green and black squares till you stop dropping it. If you’re like Viscant and literally dont have the hands for said execution…then that’s another story, but even he manages by just doing the easy stuff with Iron Man and using his fighting game smarts to space effectively with Tony’s normals and build up meter for Phoenix.
Even Iron Man has easy double jump combo stuff that does decent damage if you dont wanna go for the Guilty Gear stuff.
Speaking of execution I just found out that as long as Zero has meter he can keep doing the loop forever. So basically he can kill Thor 2 and a half times if he has enough meter. Fun.
check out mine. Trish is still under Spencer though. IMO It’s Spencer’s capability to blow meter to 100%, punish ability, great health pool and some pretty good combo extension assists that put him over Trish. The arguments for Trish are pretty convincing though. I’m a big fan of Trish.
edit: looking at it she’s probably too low though. On point she can blow up characters on the list above her.
I run Wolverine/Wesker/Phoenix LOL! fuck the utility assist, I’m going straight for combo extension
I just wanted to post some thoughts on Tron and Skrull and hear some of the community’s opinions on Tron and Skrull a few months into the game now.
I’ve been spending a lot more time in the lab with Tron. People seem to be saying Tron is mid tier or low mid mainly because of her assist, but I think she’s better, something like high mid, or even potential to be somewhere in the upper tier level. When she’s backed by assists she does CKC combos, but even by herself she can get pretty good damage, she can get 750k just follow up an air H without any assists, and we all know how easy that move can be to spam at times, also great for cross ups. She has a shit ton of health, and is surprisingly mobile regardless of her size (due to her drill) Bandit Boulder also is a great move that can stuff out other projectiles and does decent damage. She’s also a wonderful battery because drill builds so much meter. Tron also can utilize the DHC glitch. Not to mention Tron Fire which is obviously top 3 assist tier for too many reasons to name.
Skrull is a different story, he’s been my main and best character for awhile now. On paper he looks really good, he has insane ranged command grabs, a good teleport, a move that can get him openings that is pretty safe (down H), a fairly diverse moveset, a lot of health, a fast hyper (inferno) etc. However when you really look at the big picture he has a lot lacking. No projectile is a big problem. His damage output isn’t very great, and I don’t know if it’s a permanent or temporary technology barrier, but the fact that he can’t get to 600k from his command throws is very disappointing. He doesn’t have any good assists. His normals aren’t very good, he can’t deal any really good damage or practical CKC’s unless you rely on his resets, which while they may be impressive (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tgIwQPinjc) they certainly are not reliable or safe. I would also have to note that he’s the least mobile character who has a teleport. While with the proper assists (Tron Fire and Drones) he becomes a lot more of a threat, you could say the same thing about any point character. This leads me to believe that he’s somewhere in the bottom 10 until/unless a major piece of new technology is discovered.
Can anybody get to 600 k from the their command grabs any way? Wesker has to DHC glitch or team aerial combo off his to get that much or maybe another 100k more.
Yeah the main problem with Super Skrull is that he’s designed to be able to attack you from any angle but he can’t actually control his own space from said angles very well. He needs an assist to even move around without being completely random in his offense since none of his or specials are safe to just throw out without basically gambling your life. He’s like a more gimmicky, risky version of Wesker. Definitely potential but unless he starts getting huge damage combos all of a sudden he just doesn’t really stand out with much yet. He has a lot of different command normals that have effective uses that people aren’t using but I haven’t seen anything out of him that’s really solid.
Most I’ve ever seen out of Super Skrull is just praying for random shit while calling an assist to keep it safe. Which is why Super Skrull + Haggar is such a common combo. Block with your face while trying to put people in space control traps. If Haggar randomly hits you while you’re trying to amount an offense Haggar keeps them up there for 3 years so Skrull can land a combo. Which you can do with Wesker and have more solid movement and options for attack without assist.
@DevilJin01
Sentinel can get well over 600 from a command throw. I’m pretty sure Hulk can too.
I agree with what your saying about Haggar + Skrull, I run Tron + Skrull and have a similar theory. I wouldn’t exactly agree with the Wesker comparison, I think long ranged command grabs are a huge part of Skrulls game, something Wesker doesn’t really have. Wesker is also more a battery and uses meter less frequently. I really hope some options open up for him.
Yeah I dont really see it though. He’s too reliant on moves that have terrible whiff recovery. He’s going to be completely reliant on assist to amount offense the way things are going and most of the character in the high tier dont need an assist just to do something safe.
Agree’d. Shes so weak now and only really good in Astral, but its hard to activate Astral outside of x factoring it.
I think they should give her uppercut more invincibility as assist (Ryus too) Think of a Psylocke Psyblade but you cant combo after it (at least not easily)
I’m pretty sure Thor can. There’s a Japanese combo video that showed all kinds of stuff.
Felicia, Sentinel (as already mentioned) and depending on your teammates She-Hulk can all easily eclipse 600K off of command grabs.
Felicia:
:hcb::atk:(dash):df:
:uf::h::s:(land) (delay) :d: :h:3(delay)
:h:1 :s: :uf::l::h::s:(land):d::df::f::uf::l:(whiff):qcb::atk::atk:Damage in the high 700,000s, 3 bars
Sentinel:
Command grab (Heavy), OTG :qcf::l:, :qcb::atk::atk:, :s:, sj, j., j., j.:h:, Fly, j.:l:, j., j.:h:, j.:s:, OTG :qcf::l:, :qcb::atk::atk:
Corner only. 700k damage.
She-Hulk:
:qcf::h:, tag in partner, go nuts!!!
These are just a few easily grabbed examples.
**
**
Wesker can get over 420k off the heavy command grab on my team without calling his 2nd assist or using a meter.
Heavy mustang kick, c.C xx qcf+a, OTG samurai edge, c.B, c.C xx qcf+a. OTG samurai edge into Phoenix fireball, S, air BBCS comes out to exactly 420,600.
If you use the M or L command grabs you can save your wall bounce for the end and get near/over 600k with just 1 meter.
Light mustang kick, towards+C, c.C xx qcf+a, OTG samurai edge, c.B, c.C xx qcf+a. OTG samurai edge into Phoenix fireball, S, air BBCS. Land, OTG samurai edge into Iron Man, qcf+b, wait, Maximum Wesker does 612,000 if you wait long enough for them to go over your head so you get all the hits.
If you’re willing to use Lost in Nightmares you can go over 900k off the heavy command grab (1st combo above + OTG into Iron Man and level 3 = 911,900). With a team super you can theoretically go over 950k (the Wolverine number) with the right team and getting the “good” bounce.
–Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com
viscant, my hero! Any chance you can kick my ass in x-box live so i can i know how bad i really am at this game
By any chance while your here can you post a top ten/bottom ten rough tier list based on your opinion Viscant?
Spencer can get over 600k meterless off his command throw and initiate the DHC glitch. She-Hulk can just tag someone else in to do an unscaled combo, but she can also break 600k. Thor can easily get over 600k as well etc etc.
It’s not that uncommon.
I feel that anything from mid low to mid high is going to be very inaccurate simply because you will rarely see match ups of mid tiers going at it. There’s always some high tier in there bodying the mid tiers without some high tier character supporting them.
It be hard to tell if trish is better then spencer when chances of them both being in a match going at it at the same time are kind of low without some other huge threat diverting everyones attention.
I don’t remember where it was but all you need to do is watch flash metriod play iron man , he makes it look like a different character than most other im players
plus the fact that he build about 2 meters in one of these combos , finish it with a level 3 and its death
converting random hits though is a problem but , may not be on magneto’s level the issue is getting a preferd random hit as such