One of the reasons I feel low health will start to matter less and less is that any of the high tiers with high health have gotten their health nerfed or will get their health nerfed very soon. Sentinel who everyone used to complain about the 1.3 million health he had got docked down to 900k like Dante and now it’s starting to look pretty obvious that Dante is a completely better version of Sentinel. Tool for tool Dante just has it better despite health. If his health didn’t get blown down to 900k he would at least still have a solid health advantage over Dante but it’s literally down to the fact that Sent has drones assist and Dante doesn’t. Big deal.
Wesker is one of 2 characters where like having big health is a big deal. He has better normals and mix up than most of the cast and can runaway and zone very effectively. Someone with that many tools in the shed plus 1.1 million health is a problem. Luckily he’s designed in a way where he can’t necessarily one shot much anybody in the game unless he DHC’s into at least one or 2 other characters, has level 3 available or turns on the XF.Yeah you’ll definitely have to bring out your 3 character DHC combo, DHC glitch him or XF kill him off to one shot him from full health unless you’re certain characters (like Zero whaddya know).
Anybody else who has big health (1.1 or greater) is hardly high tier on point except for She Hulk covered with assists and are mainly designed for use as assists themselves. Once Super MVC3 comes around it’s pretty much going to be the cheap low health characters running the game like most fighting games at a high level. They can amount an offense and protect themselves from damage through their movement and/or spacing and zoning better than the bigger characters who may be more sluggish or not be able to capitilize as much on damage output without XF or DHCing into 2 people.
The main question to ask is "would you think about switching your team from Magneto/Zero/Akuma to Super Skrull/Hulk**/Tron because they got a bunch of health and can derp out with an assist that makes everything relatively safe to do? Or would you take the odds and just be a good player with a team that can rape the other team in one combo with better tools to space and deal with pressure any way? The big health team could very well kill each member of the Mag/Zero/Akuma team with ABCS BBCS DHC into one other person or turn on XF combos but does that really make them worth switching to? Would effort with the other team not just bring overall better results for a tournament in the long run? Most of the characters winning tournaments lately have less than no more than 800 to 950k health minus Wesker and She Hulk.**
The big derpy characters have a bit more leverage on point than they did in previous Marvel games but just like any Marvel game or fighting games in general they are just not as cheap as the lower healths.
Well it’s mainly in the fact that she has mostly everything you need to be top tier. Crazy hit boxes, a bunch of moves, very difficult to hit etc. In this game it’s not so much how health you have but how hard you are to hit and your damage output. She doesn’t seem to have the greatest damage output yet but people consistently bring up that she is really tough to land clean hits on and that’s definitely a sign of a high tier character. If you can eliminate chances to get hit in a game where you die in one touch just by virtue of your hit boxes and tools you’re in a good spot for high tier.
If someone puts in the effort or turns on XF they will kill you on a hit if they need to no matter how much health you have. Not to mention the DHC glitch which allows you to do this without XF and the fact that certain characters/teams like Dante+Trish or Zero by himself can one shot just about everyone in the cast now without any glitching. This game is about how much ridiculous shit you can put on the screen that protects you while forcing the opponent into situations where they could eat a clean hit and die. Strangely enough most of the low health characters seem to be the best at doing that.
Great hitboxes, small profile, can zone and rushdown effectively, lots of tools and options due to different stances, good supers, one hits fullscreen, the other slows. Excellent assist in Cold Star.
SR gives access to stupid H combos and the counter.
Glaive gets you a sword that gives you huge range on air options and allows you to chain hypers. With VoM sword also gets access to stupid dmg dealing combos… especially coming off DHC glitch.
Beads nets you near full screen normals and projectiles and makes Sentinel and Haggar’s life miserable.
Paper for space control, good airdash, ridiculous throw ranges round it out.
Cons: Low health
one of the “worst” xfactor boosts… if there is even such a thing.
Well health is important but of course I wouldn’t want to switch my entire team for health. I would tweak a team to use at least one upper health character like Taskmaster or Wesker though if I was using all paper thin characters.
Also, the Sentinel health nerf was reported to be intended before release but never seen into effect. I wouldn’t bet money on health nerfs for other characters.
Ammy is top tier IMHO because of her high priority normals, rush down game that can leave push blocking useless, instead overheads, great air dash, versatile hyper combos, awkward hit box, decent zoning tools and screen control (paper and cold star), meaty set ups, and a super ranged, high priority tool set (the Glaive).
Well the Sentinel health nerf would have taken place any ways because Sentinel with that much health was easily the most effective character at a low level of play which is what makes Capcom money. I guess it’s good that they saw the issue beforehand and just took care of it. Fortunately players have utilized his assist and his tools as XF3 anchor well enough that he’s stayed pretty viable despite the fact that he never really was best in the game even during the 1.3 days.
On a team of paper thin characters I can say for sure the last character I would put to the side is Zero. LOL. The tools you are given far far outweigh his health. The fact that you would only switch one of the characters at most goes to show you realize decking a team with people that can block with their face and maybe survive isn’t exactly ideal in this game.
In MVC2…Magneto…no health. Storm…no health. Psylocke…no health AND only good as an assist. Still was widely considered the number one team in the game.
I don’t really understand the use of beads. The H normals on it have great range, but can’t be converted to any damage of value and have some serious negative frames on block. Cold Star a very long start up and recovery, as well as abysmal durability points. I’m generally too scared to use it on a lot of characters, because it’s very easy to get a beam projectile or Hyper Sentinel Force to the face.
My main problem with Ammy are her lack of effective mixups and pretty terrible damage. She has her instant overhead, but it’s pretty easy to mess up against a character who isn’t that tall and she doesn’t get a whole lot off of it. That and I’m also fairly certain that only glaive can convert into a combo with it.
I agree. I prefered Mags/Storm/Sentinel or Storm/Sentinel/Cyclops over Psylocke but I get your point nonetheless. Having a team of meaty health isn’t going to get you anywhere unless they’re viable characters. A team like NerdJosh’s or Combofiends that has great synergy and high health can be a formidable opponent though as opposed to a soft team (of equal or greater strength) like Magneto/Zero/Sentinel etc. etc. Is either style better? No. I honestly prefer taking at least one 1 million + character with me. However, I think it is safe to say that TOD combos or not health is a very deciding factor in this game even at high level competition.
A lot of people give Wolverine mad props for having 950k health. That 150k extra compared to Zero/Ammy/Akuma etc. etc. is extremely useful and does actually give him an advantage over those characters in that small regard.
She can be scary as hell with an assist and her instant overhead. With drones, for example, you don’t have to be in glaive mode to convert (and she can call an assist while pressing :f:+:h::h::h::h::h::h::h::h::h::h::h::h::h::h::h::h::h: and go into mixup). She might have terrible damage (sort of), but she can still kill most of the cast in 2 of her BnB’s which is not all that different from everyone else. Add her ability to DHC glitch and consider how often she’ll actually land a hit with her 3 frame normals and she doesn’t seem half bad anymore.
Also, this auto spell checker is complete ass. It doesn’t even recognize “glaive” as a word.
Yeah for me I just think it’s just one of those things where Capcom dropped the ball on top of everything else for Wolverine by giving him 950k health. It leaves him at a threshold for taking hits where you have to be playing certain characters to kill him in one combo without blowing resources like XF. Which considering how dangerous he is and how things like his dive kick are only regularly punishable by a lot of the cast with XF guard cancels it’s definitely an issue. I didn’t really take Wolverine overly seriously at first because I just didn’t see how a character so one dimensional could be so good when there was some much other cheap shit when you put effort in. With finally getting a chance to play Wolverines that really put together all of his cheap stuff (which takes all of 10 minutes to do once you know) and watching Tokido at CEO…I was convinced.
For me I still feel more of why Wolverine is good is due to his tools. Wolverine with 850k health would still be the biggest bullshit the game has to offer just you can use a bit less damaging combos to kill him. Wolverine has very maintenance free tools that always lead to something. A dive kick that leads to damaging combos on air or ground hit is among the cheapest things in a fighting game (for the newer ones any way) in a while. This dive kick already beats most all ground normals that aren’t projectile/armor/weapon based and is impervious to air throws once active. 4 frame s.L that covers half the screen on a dash and a c.L with a vulnerable hit box so ridiculously small that some characters have to put themselves in danger of getting hit by it just to outpoke it. Then of course the invincible in the middle auto pilot mix up berserker slash. It’s a combination of all of that crap that makes Wolvie the BS high tier he is. You dont gotta do nothing but he does everything with an assist except zone. Which is fine because he will get in on your zone eventually. His XF1 being a regular killer of 2 characters is icing on the cake.
Marvel is the kind of game where things like whiff punishing regularly go out the window as long as the opponent spends meter or cancels into another safe special move or calls an assist. A game that revolves around such strategies allows a character that has auto pilot normals and specials like Wolvie to just go nuts when he has auto pilot shit covering his auto pilot self.n Auto pilot covering auto pilot is not something you can deal with using normal fighting game thinking. You either gotta think super out of the box or just come up with teams/characters that have legitimate consistent answers to the situations Wolvie presents. Which I feel characters like Dante, Zero and possibly Trish have the best tools to deal with Wolvies approach especially if backed up with protective assist. Dante and Zero both have hit boxes that can consistently deal with Wolvie’s approaches and put Wolvie in immediate danger of dying.
What would you guys change to balance keep away and rushdown?
More chip damage on projectiles?
Weaker projectiles on the characters that can rush?
Faster recovery on projectiles?
Removal of DHC glitch for the easy kill?
Just allow the keepaway characters more methods to create an offense and maybe neft the hit boxes or meter build on a couple of the the high tiers. They want the game to be more offensive so there’s no point in putting in characters totally designed on keepaway when the game is obviously designed so people can just run in and do stuff. Give the keepaway characters a few more tools to run in and do stuff. I feel the keepaway in this game works well for a newer generation of Marvel where it’s good enough to allow you to zone for a bit without getting so lame that there’s no way a novice will ever get in. It keeps the game more offensive no matter the matchup. It’s just you can easily have keepaway characters that are still effective enough on offense to to contend with the big offensive types.
The difference in overall play styles will still be there it’s just Hsien Ko or Chris will actually be able to open you up for once.
with the beads it comes down to matchups against sent unless he has meter he can’t do a thing full screen you can hit him on reaction to anything same with haggar, it might nor beat a lot but she is too small to be hit by moat beams anyways
she has a lot of ways to open people up , decent high / low. and cross ups add that on to having some of the fastest normals in the game . the rest is just pratice , plus imo glaive is her best stance overall , with it and papers you can control a lot of the screen
Her damage is anything but poor, this combo does 650000 while being neutral in meters. You can do a lot more by linking multiple Okami Shuffles. There’s still a lot of hidden potential in Ammy, lately people are finally starting to realize that the glaive >>>>>>>>> reflector and you can do much more terrifying stuff with Ammy once you stop doing the :h::h::h::h::h::h::h::h::h::h::h::h::h::h::h::h::h:. And there’s a lot of powerful stuff you can do with her slowdown that people are finding out.
+8 is only true on a very low hitting divekick. Divekicks don’t have a set frame advantage, they’re relative on the height where you hit.
Chicken block that dive kick, laugh at the frame advantage, kill wolverine.
Also Haggar is fucking godlike. I have completely stopped putting up with mix up bullshit. Just mash that assist button. Getting hit by Haggar assist generally means you’re dying as well unless you have retarded health or I fuck up the combo. I used to have Tron but she got bodied for free by teleports and crossups. No more of that bitch.
Where he starts the dive is completely irrelevant. All that matters is where he hits the opponent. The dive kick has 10 recovery frames after being grounded. Frame advantage on a dive kick is typically calculated “meaty”. I put meaty in quotes here, since the dive is active until grounded, but the frame advantage listed in the guide assumes he hits on the last possible frame before entering a grounded state and going into recovery.