Summary
that nigga Zero broken 
I would say they’re both basically as rewarding. Dante has kill most lower health characters in one combo and can build 2 meters easily on the ones that he can’t. Pretty much has something for every situation outside of if someone closes the gap on him where he will then lose the frame war in normals. Has about as much crazy shit as Zero so it’s either way.
I think Dante and Zero both still have room for growth but i think Zero’s growth will come from sougenmou and dante will just improve overall. I think Zero still has untapped potential in sougenmou. He has teh lightning loop the fireball loop, he has the regular jumping loop, the launcher to diving loop, its just seems like sougenmou has LOOP potential mostly everything i’ve seen from it turns into a new loop and its still not fully BROKEN yet. Dante has combo potential out the ass. Im still waitin for someone to link like all 40 of his moves into a single combo. Dante’s potential seems to stem from the variety of moves he has at his disposal which makes him an ever growing charecter and will be for a while. I personally favor Zero for the Most Potential he’s just redicoulus
I would also add that the existence of Team Aerial Exchanges really distorts what online is like as you can pretty much know it’s coming and still get fucked. Having played BlazBlue that game’s throw mechanics really messed up the netplay as when you have a 13 frame window (lol) to tech normal throws and a 27 frame window to tech hit or blockstun throws you’d think you’d be fine. Except you’re not. Normal throws are predictable, hit or blockstun throws aren’t and while they’re techable on reaction offline, online it’s like LOL free combo extension. Giving rise to the phrase: “How netplay was hit netplay?”. Same sort of thing here.
So now Tokido perfected meterless xfactor 1 kills with Wolverine, allowing him to save even more meter for Phoenix should an xfactor 2d Wolverine happens to run it back. Ugh.
Gamerbee combined Tokido and Wongs teams together into Wolverine/Akuma/Phoenix. Expected a player would use this sooner or later. Clearly had no knowledge of marvel and STILL won.
Mago’s the lone holdout, still running his Magneto/Amateratsu/Sentinel team. Has some nice gimmicks, but needs work. Lots of it.
All said, Tokido is easily the best overseas player we have seen at the moment, and he is GOOD. Meterless OTK xfactor 1 kills on anyone with 900k health and less, Wong levels of Wolverine, Champ levels of Phoenix and Sentinel make a very dangerous team. The Sentinel’s the weak link, but it’s Sentinel.
nemo is best in japan atm
I agree entirely. All this crap about Zero being hard to hit is nonsense to me when mix ups in this game is very strong. I agree Zero is a good character just not on the same level as Wolverine. Wolverine is faster, hits harder, can take more damage, has a super that can be used in the air and Beserker slash, dive kick, and drill claw are like substitutes for a projectile with beserker slashes invincibility frames and high priority and directional changes with drill claw and dive kick. Wolverine can simply do everything Zero can but better. For my predictions for characters placing top 11 at evo in no particular order.
Wolverine
Wesker
Sentinel
Magneto
Taskmaster
Amaterasu
Phoenix
She Hulk
Tron
Dante
Dormammu
The majority of those characters will most likely place high. There are a few others I haven’t mentioned like Zero, and Spencer. They can make it far but it would only be a single individual that gets that far.
u guys will be surprise when characters like Cap America, Morrigan, Chun, skrull win evo
my galactis will pwn u n00bs @ evo i no how2 pic him u juz press aaby @ select screen and you can use himn i will pwn evo u n00bs just like i pwn brawl wid master hand
I’d like to see some more videos of him and not just 3 month old kubosgarden matches. Hell, we don’t even know what team he plays.
Hitting a good Zero is one of the hardest things to do in the game. Trust me. The only character in the game where even if you are in a good position to hit him if he puts his normal out even on the same frame he’s going to win. You can’t trade with Zero ever because all of his go to normals are lazers. You have to somehow beat him to the punch (while being in range to beat him to the punch with those long ass swords) or catch him whiffing something with long enough recovery to punish or you can’t even press normals at him.
Zero is one of the few characters in the game that can legit fight Wolverine without the need of Haggar or Tron. Wolverine has a lot of good shit but Zero’s swords make Wolverine sit the hell down. Wolverine does one bad dive kick or berserker slash against charged buster and swords and he goes home. Most of the stuff that Wolverine loves to do loses to the hit boxes of everything Zero loves to do. Zero can kill Wesker in one combo now so Wolverine definitely falls under the list of dies in one hit. So much for Wolverine having better health cuz you die when you get hit in this game. Even if you’re worried about the execution factor like a lot of the people in this thread always seem to be it’s fucking Wolverine. Unless he’s got Phoenix in the back just turn on the freaking XF1/2 and get him the hell out of there with some easy shit and you might have some left to kill off the next incoming. Oh wait you dont even need that because Zero can kill everybody in one combo now.
Wolverine has nothing without assist that can outprioritize what Zero is doing. He just has to get lucky with berserker slash + assist shit which Zero has more than enough tools to defend against. Some characters dont even have the hit boxes or general priority/movement to deal with Wolverine without an assist. Yet Zero can definitely deal with him one on one and even if they’re both fighting with assists Wolverine has to keep himself in check with the idea that his normals and dive kick can and will get blown up by charged buster or any of Zero’s Jedi normals. It’s nice to have health but characters with more health than Wolverine or Zero can do less about what Zero is capable of and having as low health as Zero is a fine trade off for the fact that you can one shot Wesker if you go in training mode.
If Wolverine invades Zero’s space then his s.L will beat out anything Zero has. You can invade his space with a dive kick. Zero’s Ryuenjin does not have any invincibility frames so there goes his counter.
Marvel is such a team game it is difficult to make individual character tiers however I think you guys with more experience can help flush out my idea and give me your opinions.
This game honestly needs 3 tier lists to make sense to me. These assume that the players using the characters are not necessarily flawless, but have the traits of players we have seen in their areas… (desk execution, Wong clutchness, etc)
(A) Character at maximum potential (2 assists on point w/ meter and X-Factor to burn) or 3 level X-factor alone w/e’s better for them.
(B) least potential (X-Factorless, w/o meter prior to combo, no assists)
© Overall Synergy with majority of cast (likely hood that this character can be slapped on any team)
I would like to hear what you think are the top 5 in each category.
Here’s my inexperienced example (I play mediocre competition and just destroy them I don’t know much outside of watching)
(A) Even if they hurt their teams for their own benefit we are just judging them on their own performance. (no specific order here)
- Pheonix (at max potential she is Dark pheonix the biggest threat in this game)
- Dante (Sick ass character, if played perfectly he can do anything)
- Wolvie (Cheap bastard)
- Wesker (High health, extended combos w/ assists, very threatening, mix ups w/ assists)
- Magneto (filthy do it all character)
- Zero (honorable mention)
(B) The solo justin wong before X factor existed come back characters, no assists, no X-factor, No meter (yet), none of that matters to these guys.
- Magneto (This dude needs no help)
- Dante (Same)
- ???
- ???
- ???
© Slap these guys on any team and they will work. Great assists, DHC’s and not liabilities on point.
- Taskmaster
- Akuma
- Dante
- Doom
- Sent
- Ammy?
- Magnus?
Don’t rip me on my suggestions this is merely an example, but I do want to know what you more experience players think.
is mike still using the same team in marvel? hes in winners at shadow and wondering if he changed anything
People underestimate the power of the time in a game llike MVC3.
It’s like people forget that Wolverine wasn’t 100% likely to be #1 or #2 at the moment until CEO made it as clear as day.
BS- Wong, Floe and PR Rog already put him as top as far back as PowerUp and everyone scoffed at them. Then UFGT7 came around and sealed the deal. Not to mention Tokido already was blowing ppl up at Stunfest, which was around PowerUp too.
Phoenix was already a top tier threat, but no one thought that spending meter with her was smart. Still a Phoenix team took MATVIII and a Phoenix team was the one that put Wong in losers at PowerUp. No one remembers that b/c of his next match against Noel.
CEO showed that you could put Wolverine and Phoenix on the same team and make it work. That you could put users with the most meter hungry character on a team and just make it work.
Wolverine and Phoenix were the hot shit right as tournament season kicked off in earnest, which is why we see them so much; people will pick the cheapest shit to win, since there’s no time to hit the lab b/c of tournaments every week. It’s the 1 month period leading to EVO where the pros will develop the real broken shit. We haven’t seen ANYTHING yet.
You just explained the Wolverine matchup vs. like everybody…not against Zero. Wolverine doesn’t even have a counter for rushdown but he beats up the cast too. You dont need a counter for rushdown to be good in this game you just gotta be good at rushing down and have a character with hit boxes that make it so they never have to block while the opponent always does. The only other thing you need other than that is high damage which both Zero and Wolvie have. Which both Zero and Wolverine are great at. A character like Chun Li on the other hand has a pretty annoying hit box with lightning legs but it scales like hell on damage and her ability to actually get in is completely limited compared to Zero or Wolvie.
Normally the main issue most characters have with Wolvie rushdown is that they must play offensively to win but they’re dealing with a character that has completely better hit boxes than they do which puts them in a catch 22 of their own play style. This game unless you pick certain characters is mainly about who has the scariest hit boxes and gets the most when they face roll on buttons that causes those hit boxes to activate. If your character can’t rushdown or generally close the gap often with cheap hit boxes and get an ass load of damage when they do it they’re probably not within the top 10 unless you’re putting them there specifically because of their abilities as an assist.
Zero doesn’t have to worry about this because unless Wolvie gets within point blank range he can’t use any hit boxes without risking losing to Zero’s. Zero’s s.L and s.M’s will beat anything Wolvie does unless he actually gets in and forces Zero to block something first. Long as Zero keeps quick recovering hit boxes on the screen and throws in some j.H’s that is shit that even Wolverine wants nothing to do with because one landed hit will end him and he can’t outpoke anything from a range. Zero is one of the few characters that Wolvie is actually forced to get inside and frame trap first before he can actually start an offense. In most matchups Wolverine has the luxury of just throwing hit boxes out on the screen any time he wants because his hit boxes have dumb ass properties and priorities that instantly lead to high damage easy combos. Against characters like Zero and Dante he must force them to block something first or risk getting hit at all times. Which plays against his normal ability to just command any area of the screen simply because he’s either eventually going to turn invincible periodically or just has some hit box that you can’t out poke.
The only time characters like Zero or Wolverine ever have to block is if someone forces them to block. Unfortunately their hit boxes are so damned good that the only time anyone can ever force them to block is if they make a clear obvious mistake on their own accord. It’s almost impossible to force a Wolverine or Zero to press a normal or attack with an assist at a bad time because it’s nearly impossible for them to by design. Which is why when the two go head to head with assists backing up each other it’s hardly a match where one totally thrashes on the other and I would say with more play of the game the match will start heading towards or already is in Zero’s favor. Mainly because they’ll both be trying to do the same shit but Wolverine will actually have to worry about where he places his normals which is not good for him considering his range game will pretty much be completely reliant on his assist and random berserker slash crosses. Which Zero plus assist will by default have a better range game for laming out Wolvie on top of the fact of being able to rush him down and space him effectively with normals.
The s.L beating out everything Zero has is not true either because Zero’s c.L is 4 frame start up as well and goes under the hit box of Wolvie’s s.L. Plus the range is pretty solid for a c.L. Not She Hulk or Wesker range but definitely more than say Chun’s or X23’s. Wolverine’s dive kick can be a bit scary for Zero unless he has level 3 buster charged up and then it’s not a problem anymore especially with an assist covering. Zero gets everything he needs to deal with Wolverine compared to the other cast. His hit boxes work perfectly against Wolvies which is something most of the other cast can’t say.
**To address some shit in general…a game where you die in one combo any ways if you want to be consistent you shouldn’t be worried so much about petty things like how much health your character has. **You mainly want to be more so focused on the amount of tools your character has to force their offense on an opponent at all times so the situations where they are forced to block is minimal. If your character doesn’t have cheap ass hit boxes or close the gap really fast then they automatically have low health because their chances of getting hit are completely better than Zero’s or Wolvie’s. Zero and Wolvie have the tools to run around for 10’s of seconds without getting hit because their hit boxes just win, win often and pretty much always lead to you dying.
**Akuma didn’t really have health in Vanilla SFIV and he ran that game. He still doesn’t have health in console or AE and still is one of the best. Yun had bad health in 3S and and not particularly awesome health in AE but he runs both of those games. When you get to a certain level of play you know you wont get hit because you have the cheapest shit and as long as you put the cheap shit in the right place how are you going to get hit? That’s what makes top characters. People didn’t give up on Magneto in MVC2 because he had no health. No that mother fucker ran your shit for 10 years at the cost of low health. ** If you worry about your character simply because they have low health then you would get hit and lose just as quickly playing a high health character. If that low health character had everything to protect themselves from getting hit and can kill people whenever they hit them, as a top player you put in the effort to make sure that can always happen regardless of their execution or health.
When Wolverine has already invaded Zero’s space via Dive Kick, Wolverine is +8 on block meaning Zero trying a c.L he will get hit in the process. The power of Zero’s s.L is the range so that is what he needs to use to keep Wolverine frame trapped enough for a crossup. IMO what I would do is push block Wolvie to create some space and regain the advantage of his sword normals. With Zero/Dante, you can just call Jam Session if Wolvie goes for a super jump dive kick.
Actually it has 7. Then another buster shot and another lightning.
edit: oops, 6, sorry. I was counting the first one which isn’t tiger-kneed.
I definitely do agree if Wolvie gets in range to force you to block a dive kick that’s when you have an issue but it’s the same issue every other character runs into. It’s not a specific problem for Zero. The main thing is that Zero actually has shit that he can put on the screen so Wolverine has to think about whether or not he should try that dive kick to get in range of Zero. The fact that Wolverine can die for trying to enter the range he needs to win against Zero eliminates the random abare factor that Wolverine usually carries in most matchups. Wolverine’s s.L with the right timing can even beat Wolvie’s dive kick. The luxury Wolverine normally carries is his ability to get into the air and shit on everyone’s anti air normals and air throws with brain dead dive kicks that have to be grab or XF guard punished otherwise.
One of the big reasons why I love using Dante against Wolverine because the matchup is no longer “throw or XF guard cancel a dive kick or block string or die”. If you’re at a specific spacing with the right normals and specials Wolvie actually has to worry about dying. Everybody else has to have Tron assist. LOL.
The correct answer to this Zero debate is dead in the middle of what you are both saying. DJ is definitely right about everything he is saying but he is obviously slightly biased in Zero’s favor. Zero is hard to out poke and has the priority of God.
I personally think he is being slept on but he isn’t too far underrated. He has a unique type of DHC synergy that can hinder him (or really make him special on the right team), his mobility is versatile and confusing but it lacks invincibility and he can be zoned out to an extent.
To those who think low health doesn’t matter in a game with touch of death combo’s you fail to incorporate chip damage, dropped combos, and unblocked projectiles.