I get what you’re saying but you’re getting a little do deep into theory that is irrelevant. Characters never get hit anyways, it’s always the player. Like I said, I understand what you mean but Zero can be hit as much as any other character solely along the lines of the other players reactions and defense. I guess a better way to state this is if two players of equal skill play Zero and another character, Zero should not be hit. Still note it is just a should. Fighting games would be so boring if perfect theory could be put into practice.
Yeah but that’s the reason why Zero will always be top of the tiers. He has everything to mow through a team all the fucking time. You can’t actually think when you fight a Zero player. Especially if you’re a character that doesn’t have anything close in the way of normals. The only thing you can think about doing is trying to outspace him long enough to make him whiff something. There’s no real spacing battle or counter hit game. Once he gets in you have to guess even during like basic frame trapping shit because his normals and projectiles force you to pretty never press an attack ever. He fits a really strange archetype of character that I’ve never really encountered in a fighting game before which even if you KNOW what he’s going to do you can’t really actually do anything once he gets into a certain range.
The great thing about Zero is that it’s pretty much on you to ever get hit. You dont have to worry about your normals not having priority if you go into a normal war with someone, you dont have to worry about being limited in a zoning game, the only things you have to actually worry about are execution and getting hit which are things every character has to worry about. There’s nothing about the character itself that you really have to manage other than their execution. Manage their execution and projectiles and the game pretty much takes care of the rest until you somehow get hit.
Like there’s no “spacing” that you can be at that will beat Zero’s normals like most characters in other fighting games or even this game. It doesn’t matter where you are spaced Zero’s normals will always win. Stuff like that is what makes Zero the “can’t lose unless you fuck up” kinda character he is.
There’s nothing you can specifically say that Zero has to deal with that nobody else has to deal with when it comes to spacing or priority. He does it better than everybody else but he just has no health. That’s what makes him ridiculous.
That still no excuse for Zero have more health, he would basically end up like Wolverine is right now.
I don’t even what to understand the line of thinking that Dante needs a command grab, or a 4 frame normal.
I main Dante now and I could think about more things to nerf about him than buff about him. The slow start up and recovery on his normals mostly balance out what he’s capable of but moves like his hammer could definitely still destroy people without having 15 frames of invincibility or being plus 20 on block. I’ll take it but it’s unnecessary considering there’s so many other strong things Dante has any way.
A character like Dante doesn’t need buffs there is no reason for it. He is tourney viable, he has the highest known potential in the game, average health considering his rewards, he has long range normals, a invulnerable move that makes Haggar’s double lariat look like shit, a buff hyper that is really XF0.5 with more moves, 2 viable assists, and it goes on from there. This is ignoring that Dante has team chemistry in every possible way that you could think of, and he has GREAT matchups against the cast.
As for Zero, the character is better than he what was in TvC. Capcom fixed every possible problem with Zero that you could think of. .
After playing against 3 godlike Dantes last night I definitely don’t think he needs any sort of buff lol.
Dante needs a dive kick, less startup on hammer, more range on J.H (extend the hitbox both forwards and backwards), Devil Trigger time+power should be increased (40% both), and 300K more health and he might be mid tier!
He doesn’t have any half circle motions or charge moves. They really wasted a lot of design space with Dante. They’ve even neglected to give him :u::uf::f: air projectiles like Magneto. What a shallow character.
He also needs a full screen super that starts in 1 frame, a tri-jump, and all of his assists should be invincible.
And he should also have his own Drones as a normal special that he can call infinitely that can’t be destroyed.
Just like Viper’s EX moves should only cost 1/4 of a bar? 
Actually Dante should have drones that just come out automatically without pressing anything… 6 drones to be exact. When those 6 disapear then 6 more will come right after and so on
Actually I think Vipers EX move should make you GAIN 1/4 meter (hit or whiff).
Fuck it, the entire screen should just be nothing but drones when Dante is out.
Like, you can’t even see the game, it’s just drones overlapping drones and the game awards Dante an automatic win.
Whoa whoa whoa, a little biased here are we?
He definitely needs a command grab to round out his arsenal. That and a shoryuken like move. What the hell was capcom thinking not giving him a DP looking move?
They should make it so if Dante is losing, he can do a special move to pause the game and go into the item shop to buy some healing items / invincibility power ups, etc etc. He should also be able to start the DHC glitch off going into the item shop.
The only counter to dante is to do the super where it has team ninja redesign him, in which case everyone stops loving him and he goes into a deep depression / meth additction.
I’ve gone over this before a while ago and I really think people are forgetting (or are unaware of) what Zero was capable of in TvC. Genmu Zero is a buff, Rekkoha is a buff (although he lost some really cool DHC tricks - but gained others), Raikousen is a buff, but other than that it’s hard to say. Level 2 busters caused knockdown in TvC - imagine that in marvel. Sougenmu loops were dirt easy in TvC ([
:d: :h:, release level 1 buster]*n). Probably most importantly, if he mega crashed you in the corner and had the right assist he could go into a combo that built 2 full meters - meaning if you did anything whatsoever to try to get out of the corner he could just mega crash you again into the same combo. So if Zero had more meter than you and landed a hit on you near the corner he could keep you there for the rest of the game guaranteed.
Also if you thought Zero built a lot of meter in this game just think what it would be like with a 7-move magic series instead of 4.
Sougenmu is the toughest call on whether it’s better or worse. On one hand copying every move instead of just specials opens up a lot of new combo possibilities, traps, and lockdown tools, but on the other it makes converting random hits into full combos a lot more awkward. In the end it’s probably better in MvC3. There’s a lot of good reasons Zero was #1 in TvC.
Was just about to hit submit when I facepalmed at myself for forgetting: All of Zero’s sword normals (everything except c.L and j.L) destroyed projectiles in TvC. Wouldn’t that be fun in Marvel?
Megacrash really was what made Zero retarded in TVC. Do combo that builds two meters, let opponent hit you in the corner, megacrash, do combo that builds two meters off of the mega crash, let opponent hit you. PROFIT.
dante needs raging devil
All of dante’s normals should be high-priority projectiles.
I think whenever anyone mentions patch or update changes they want for their favorite characters or problem characters in the tier thread, we should be allowed to start talking about what new specials Dante needs too.