This is an opinion thread though, At the highest level of this game, it isn’t marvel 2. People can win with anything but coming from some tourney experience (and a jaded theory fighter mind) this is what i’ve come up with.
It certainly is, and it’s great that you edited your post to further explain your thoughts. However, don’t expect a great response to your S tiers.
The thing is, the DHC glitch is near obsolete when accounting for high end tourney play now ATM. Why blow 2 bars just to kill 1 character when you can blow xfactor and 2 bars to kill 2 characters? The focus is now on getting the first hit and xfactoring to get a guaranteed kill on the first opponent, then running the mix up train on the 2nd with xfactor to spare. So you blow xfactor and most, if not all of you meter on 2 character kills, but in return you still have all 3 characters to run stupidly good mixups on an incoming 3rd.
What I guess I’m trying to say is that the defining moments of the game now is getting that first hit, and getting that 50/50 when a character is coming in. Wolverine just happened to be the best at that.
I love this shit. Up until about the beginning of May you would’ve been laughed out of the room for activating level one X-factor–now it’s the favored strategy. The meta for Marvel 3 is changing at a stupid fast pace: there’s a new “broken character” every damn month, there’s a new touch of death combo or reset every day. Madness, I swear.
And what’s even more weird, everyone not playing Wolverine is still dropping combos.
How long will this all last?
If I know Capcom, until the announcement of Super.
It also doesn’t help that there are so many tournaments this month. With everyone trying to win and score evo points EVERY WEEK, new tech is probably put on hold and people are going to resort to the cheapest shit to win. It didn’t help that that was the point when Wolverine was being rediscovered and Phoenix teams were on the rise, which was coincidentally around UFGT/ MATVIII. Then CEO and Revelations cemented the Wolverine/Phoenix trend, with NorCal further proving the Wolverine/Phoenix dominance. So for about 3-4 weeks we get wolverine/phoenix team wins shoved in our face as well, which gets tiring. Honestly with ECC and SS this weekend barring any new developments the same thing will happen. It will be during the 1 month break to evo that players will get in the lab and get out the big guns.
I surely hope EVO11 will be crazy new lab technology. Else I’ll be mad bored for both AE and MvC3. /rant
oh well, there’s always Chun Fighter 3: Yun Strike. lol
I’m getting 3SO solely to support the GGPO. I’m ass at the game. Wasn’t too hype about it when it was at EVO either.
It’s definitely a more ‘player friendly’ game rather than a ‘spectator friendly’ one. I’d play it for hours, but watching it gets dry quite quickly
OT: Marvel 3 still has some sandbox potential in it, and i’m hoping for more technology to inspire the minds of all. Less herp derperine. Don’t mind if Best Friends still taking it because it’s a team that gets the job done. I’m hoping to see a good fight against it though.
I remember a while back a few people said x23 would end up being better than Logan.
what you lot think of x-23 ?
Is pretty good once she gets in, best actual pressure and frametrap character in the game. It’s just…getting in right, getting in at all, and execution barriers that are really holding her back. She could be high if it weren’t for the fact that she requires Mags-like stuff to actually do good damage and meter build.
Still the 2nd best at what she does.
Which means, pick Mr Howlett for the moment.
In all seriousness she has her good points but she like half the rushdown characters in the game are completely outclassed by Wolverine, and she has less health to boot. She has some great tools and options, and 1 of the best level 3s in the game. Go ask DevilJin for a more complete breakdown.
Those people are being ridiculous anyway, it shouldn’t have taken long to realize how strong Logan is in this game and how difficult it is to constantly get in with x23. What I find more interesting is that a while back a few people said Jill would end up being better than x23, do people still feel that way? Jill is probably the biggest “should be good, but always gets bodied” character in this game.
If they do, they’re wrong.
for one, 23 actually has a GOOD lvl3. I’ve never seen somebody use jill’s lvl 3 on stream. I like how it’s basically turning on V-ism in a game where pretty much everyone is a walking V-ism on their own
Jill, she is a great anchor with lv3 hyper and xfactor lv3 someone did that to me and i couldn’t block anything.
You can combo off her airthrow with a OTG assist. You don’t need to call it before the throw.
I run Tron second on a Phoenix point team. It’s pretty much my “main” team. It is absolutely not tournament viable as you can run into too many easy random factors. I don’t see how you played any reputable wolverines if that’s your strat as first of all Tron’s fire has very VERY little guard stun meaning if they bait it and the slide you’re not at neutral position. Second, I’m not certain but Wolverine can probably duck it. Third, one of the most COMMON wolverine openings if you’re walking first is an option select dive kick/air throw with an akuma assist call which beats Tron clean. If you start the round backing up to super jump, the same option select off super jump can land on you. From there on a simple BnB kills you (sometimes WITHOUT X factor) and have fun with Tron next coming in for a mixup. The only way you’re winning Phoenix versus Wolverine would be day one wolverine tech. Otherwise the odds are NOT in your favor.
This pretty much sums up where X23 is at for the moment. Nobody is really studying her and she’s a character that you have to study to bring out her true potential. Most of her shit that’s actually scary you have to have serious execution for. It’s hard to even do her H mirage feint hop stuff online and even that that shit is like day one compared to the new MFC based shit with her I’ve found where you can basically create infinite block strings that are plus 12 on block and cancel said block string at any point. She can whiff normals in the middle of her infinite block strings and create frame traps so tight that advance guarding or pressing normals could get you killed really fast and XF guard cancel wont result with enough time to actually hit X23. When X23 gets to that higher level of play you better have haggar/tron assist or be the best guesser in the world because even if X23 doesn’t have an assist she’ll likely open you up for free with something. I’m almost certain that’s part of why they make it harder for her to get in than Wolvie. You’re going to wish it was Wolvie getting in on you eventually.
For right now with how rudimentary people still play their Dantes and how Wolverine can do most of what X23 can do with a bit more of a health threshold keeps him higher. The main reason why Wolverine is better than X23 at the moment is his absolute dominance in killing people off with gimmicky XF1 stuff and the fact that his hit boxes are retarded. The fact that his dive kick ground bounces on air hits and has a hit box the size of a hummer is an unnecessary luxury and opponents have to go so much out of their way to deal with his 6 frame rapid fire c.L that hits so low to the ground that some characters have to find another crouch normal just to even trade with it. It even goes under Tron’s fire assist for fucks sake. Capcom randomly dropping the ball with hit boxes I guess. Right now the game is at a state like SFIV was early on where you can see potential in characters like Abel or Viper but why do all of that work when you can DP with Ryu and Sagat?
X23 has a lot of cheap things including a level 3 with the right assists and XF that can guarantee death of 2 characters but it all requires more work and thought than Wolvie. Her ability to get in is a bit marred by not having a partly invincible special move to get in move like Wolvie but she has better air approaches that covered with a strong projectile assist can do enough to get her in. She also has the game’s best wave dash so combining all of those tools unless you’re fighting Deadpool with Trish peekaboo assist you’ll likely get in at some point. Her Weapon X level 1 has the most invincibility of any level 1 in the game (60 frames of invincibility) which is more invincibility than any level 3 except for Felicia’s. It will win pretty much all DHC wars except against safe DHC’s like Zero sogenmu or Felicia kitty helper and only loses in invincibility to Arthur’s level 3 (invincible for 230 frames).
**For those that want to know more about X23’s potential you can look at the stuff I’m coming up with in the lab in the link in my signature. For those that know about Maximillian’s Assist Me series…I’m collaborating with him to do a series for X23 and he contacted me personally since he was looking for someone that knew more about the character than he did. **I’m going to assume there will be some interesting storyline with an X23 chick so we’ll see. LOL. In the end though if it just gets the exposure of the characters potential and gets a step towards people playing real X23 and not just ABCS “bad wolverine” X23 it’s a good step.
I bought in to the Jill being better than X23 thing for a week because I saw that Jill could instant overhead the entire cast and was basically just as fast or faster than X23. Which while I was still learning X23 I was like “wow this shit could get stupid considering X23 is having problems opening people up and getting in as it is”. Now though it seems the work it’s going to take to make Jill strong will be even rougher than it is for X23. She seems just about as execution heavy as X23 but people are making it seem like she has an ever rougher time closing the gap than X23. Which like X23 could possibly be due to not everyone knowing the best way to make her approach with an assist but outside of her level 1 machine gun super she can’t really just close the gap real fast yet and her wave dash while good still isn’t as good as X23’s.
Thoughts on anti-Phoenix tech:
A while ago I posted in here asking people which “welcome setups” they felt were particularly strong, enough so to potentially have bearing on character tiers. Just a random example being that Justin seems to break a LOT of new character/snap guards with Shehulk and Tatsu, etc etc
Anyway, I bring it back up because of the discussion of anti-Phoenix technology. Now correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t the best anti-Phx tech simply be the mastery of a really good welcome mixup/setup? I mean all it takes to initiate is hit confirming a combo, as if Phoenix wasn’t even involved, and then combo-ing that to a snap. At which point, something like the good ol Wolvie drill claw to dive kick to tatsu mixup then puts Jean in a nasty 50/50 that Justin makes a living off of (almost literally).
I’m not trying to over-trivialize, as one of my main best teams is a Phoenix team (team Renegade, Wesker Tron Phx. Its da besteses). But I am and have been obsessed with these incoming character welcome setups, and find myself shocked any time a player doesn’t at least make an ATTEMPT at an attack in these scenarios. Shouldn’t this be the focus of any talk of anti-Phoenix? I asked around the other day for some good Wesker-Tron welcome setups and got a shit ton of great responses and ideas. And I’ll tell you what: I put wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy more stock into those tactics then some stupid Spiderman trick .0000786554% of the player base will ever use.
Yeah snap in plus gdlk mix up has always been the best answer to Phoenix. Justin is one of the few people that actually snaps Phoenix in with a real purpose. Other players tend to snap her in and let her go up in the air all the time because they dont have a real air block string that forces her to the ground. Wolverine kinda gets it easy because you have to guess which fork in the road he’s going to take or you’ll lose but other characters you pretty much just need an assist and a good lockdown block string and Phoenix has to deal with a mix up after the snap or lose. Especially if she’s in the corner it’s very hard to not get out of that initial mix up without being tagged by something.
Snapping Phoenix in 3 and 4 times and letting her get away each time is not smart. Having a real serious mix up when she comes in and putting her off the 1st or second snap in is much better. Devoting your entire life to snapping her in every 2 seconds is just not worth the meter burn. You’re just kinda playing on hopes and prayers than anything else. Justin doesn’t like shit that relies on hopes and prayers so that’s why he’s more consistent at killing her than other people. He makes sure when he gets Phoenix snapped in that by the 2nd snap she usually succumbs to something and dies.
You still have to prepare for the inevitable threat of DP and you shouldn’t be ignorant of what to do against DP but it’s arguably easier to fight DP than someone fighting you down with regular Phoenix because against DP it’s just luck of the draw. Did you land a random hit or survive 20 seconds of XF? Okay you might win. You didn’t? Okay you lose.