While I agree that Storm is no Trish or Magneto, she does have some tools that I feel are being overlooked.
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[]The ability to call assists while in hover mode. This means she can call an assist (Drones, Missiles, a beam, Jam Session, whatever) while way up at the top of the screen, and then she can come safely down and do it again. Not being able to see the assist as it appears on screen is really valuable. Same with being in a different spot than your assist. They make both of you much safer and means less chance of a happy birthday.
[]Her best normals are all hitbox. Jump Heavy and Jump Special. Standing Medium and Special. Crouching Heavy. Many of them are very large, also.
[*]**Many of her best normals are jump cancelable. **Standing Medium, Crouching Heavy. Easily gets turned into Hover mixups or safely resuming pressure.
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No, she doesn’t build good meter (just over 1 bar in a good combo) and she does poor damage without the glitch (like 550k for one meter, maybe). But obviously you should be DHC glitching if you play Storm.
She’s fast, very mobile. She does a good job of transitioning from the neutral game to an offensive game. She has quick high/low mix-ups. She can turn throws into dead characters. She makes good use of X-Factor and meter. Her THC Hail Storm is a good tool.
That said, I think Trish is similar and better for many teams. People who think Trish is bad probably haven’t played her against other players. Her tools don’t really shine in training mode. It’s tough to see just how valuable her speed, mobility, range and priority are against the training dummy.
ive had a bit of success with his web ball as an assist, since it comes out slightly behind your point character. call assist while walking forward, and with any luck the opp has started attacking, web ball hits them (since its so damn slow and can be hard to spot) and its a free combo for the point character. i hardly ever get punished for calling it it seems its not worth most peoples time to try and bait it out or anything.
yea compared to other characters they are very poor, but not useless.
As far as Phoenix vs Spiderman thing… It just doesn’t work.
I played a set against DeRezz last night, who’s easily the best spiderman in the area, and his Spider-Man never even lived to get the oppurtunity.
This “Strat” has several things going against it:
It requires Spider-Man, who doesn’t have many good match ups anyway against likely Phoenix teamates
It requires Spider-Man not being on point, and his assists are shitty.
It requires a meter to Snap phoenix in, land a hit, 1 meter for Max Spider, XF, and 1 meter for ultimate web throw. In the process, phoenix loses 5 meters.
Spider Man straight up loses to jean gray some kind of bad way. If a Spider-Man got this tech down to a science, you’re damn sure I’m going to be using Phoenix Rage and Healing Field, and that’s really bad news for spider man.
I’m going to snap in spider-man or whatever your trump card is, and kill them.
BTW, someone check if that combo kills phoenix with healing field on. Does maximum spider remove healing field like other cinematic hypers?
What assist can’t? Come on guys, I’ve seen people grasping for straws before, but really?
QFT
Though i’m not convinced about Storm flight mode and calling assists. Does it really add anything to the table? It seems kinda gimmicky. I guess with Jam Session you could mount some good keepaway with it.
I have a mess around team of Storm/ Morrigan (harmonizer)/ Dormammu (purification)
I just kinda float around and call morrigan a lot, and call dormammy if I feel they’re gonna try to chase me. Then I use the meter on DHC tricks, and save 5 for dormammu at the end.
Also, Hail/Stalker Flare, Purification xx Stalker Flare DHC Hail is a guarunteed kill on Jean Grey without using XF.
I’m wondering if the team would be more effective to just run Storm/Dorm/Morrigan, as morrigan’s DHC’s doesn’t assist kill for shit.
Renegade, check out the Wolverine/Spider-man combos I posted. Does not require Spider-man on point and Spider-man serves as combo extension for Wolverine. KingHippo confirmed the combo is a kill on regular Phoenix. I’m sure your friend wasn’t running Wolvie/Spidey since I posted the combo this morning. You do not need to snap Phoenix in. Just kill her two point characters, death combo on Phoenix and that’s GG. Don’t lose your Wolverine in the process.
The only thing that makes this not guaranteed is the fact that you may snap Spidey in. Obviously no strategy is foolproof but there are ways around that. Spider-Man DOES have 900,000HP so he has that going for him. You won’t kill him in one combo unless you XF.
As a player with a Phoenix alternate, I find the Spider-man matchup fairly interesting.
I’m one of those Phoenix players who has absolutely no problem with using meter to kill problem characters. I don’t mind taking risks as long as I’m following a game plan. Even on non-Spidey teams, I find characters like Spencer (Bionic Arm), Magneto (Gravity Squeeze), Dormammu and Akuma (every random super ever), to be potential threats. I have no problem using meter to kill off these characters or Spider-man if it ensures that they become less of a threat later.
It’s interesting because in a way, that’s a victory for your team itself (I can’t sit back and save meter comfortably) and I want to see how this metagame will develop.
I’m really starting to find the Phoenix metagame to be one of the more interesting aspects of Marvel 3.
Just to clarify, it’s her ‘hover/float’ mode as opposed to her fly mode. The biggest thing I think it lets you do is turn a neutral situation into an approach.
For example, you just pushblocked someone out and then super jumped to the top of the screen. You’re pretty safe at the top of the screen, but nothing is going to happen from there, and they’re now below you and you can’t really see what they’re up to. You can maybe fly around and try and get into a better position, you can fall with a nasty normal and hope it gets you back to the ground, or you can just fall back down and see what happens. That’s most characters.
Storm can float though and call an assist. Even basic projectiles can let you come down on top of them safely and now you’re applying pressure rather than vice versa. It’s especially true for the slow ones that eat a ton of time/space like drones or hidden missiles.
There are a few things that make this pretty safe and practical. She’s far away from her assist, meaning the opponent probably can’t hit you both at once into a happy birthday. It’s hard to visibly see the assist when they appear. If they go for the assist, Storm can save them. If they go for Storm, they possibly get hit with the assist or have to convert a combo or air-throw that starts very high in the air. And Storm can block during float mode (unlike fly mode).
It’s not a huge thing. It doesn’t snap Phoenix in and unblockable her and then wash your car. It is handy and useful though.
Actually, I posted that a drawback of the “Spidey Solution” was that spiderman was NOT on point. Spidey’s assists suck, and his DHC’s are unsafe and don’t do much damage. He has very little value in the back of a team.
The spidey solution really is only effective if Phoenix already has 5 meters. Most of the time when that happens one of your characters is dead. If not, well then you’ve been rolling the PHX player anyway (probably being stupid about using overly long combos), and probably had multiple oppurtunities to snap phoenix in and kill her.
The nice thing about it is that IF you roll phoenixes first two characters and she gets to level 5, you have a way to eliminate the Dark Phoenix reverse OCV once you touch jean.
But you’re essestially sacrificing an ENTIRE CHARACTER SLOT for that ability. Doesn’t make any kind of sense. It’s like you’re playing a phoenix metagame only with a worse phoenix.
Also, with wolverine on point, the far more effective strategy is to do what justin did and snap her in.
Btw. Wolverine/Spiderman? I’m freaking starting Jean Grey and will make you cry.
The problem is that there are too many things not guaranteed with this strategy, and it relies on a very specific order and chain of events that are hard to setup.
Look at the joker here. Starting Phoenix against a Wolverine? You’re that good? You got any videos of you starting Phoenix? I highly doubt you can start Phoenix against, say, a Wolverine/Spidey/(Dante/Sentinel/Akuma/Doom) In fact, I’ll run Doom just to make sure you can’t go anywhere while I’ll Dive Kick and left/right mixup with Web Swing/Berserker Slash. You ain’t making nobody cry.
No strategy is 100% It is here on SRK that I was told that. It’s still viable and it’s not different from Wolverine/Sentinel/Phoenix with Phoenix being the combo extension and Sentinel the utility assist. All you have to do is pick a utility assist on 3rd slot. All you need is a hit confirm on Phoenix and she’s dead.
Of course, this all assumes that you’re getting to Phoenix with Wolverine still alive. Certainly possible, but most of the people who run through the first two characters do it with XF1, kinda killing your whole thing.
I play Wesker/Tron/Phoenix. I start Phoenix all the time to keep her fresh. She blows up wolverine something terrible like.
Ready? Fight! I’m gonna call Tron and slide. Then superjump and throw homing balls till I’m bored. If I don’t feel like chancing the Round 1 Fight guessing game (which essentially is, BESERKER SLASH!), then i’ll start another character and just bring in Jean Grey through a DHC.
Yes, I’m that confident with her. She’s great on her own. With Tron? She’s absolutely silly.
The problem with this strategy is that you think that you can get a kill on Phoenix= game over. Well it’s not. You have to go through her teammates without losing Wolverine AND Spiderman (especially Spiderman) and still have 2 or more hyper meter AND a hitconfirm on Phoenix for this strategy to work.
Also the team is mediocre at best because Spiderman AND Wolverine needs assists to perform to their fullest, and they need very specific assists for that to happen. For Parker, an OTG. For Wolverine, a pressure assist or a pickup that can combo after his OTG. Very few assists fit both criteria, since Parker and Howlett’s assists don’t complement each other at all in that regard.
The difference between Wolverine/Sentinel/Phoenix and the cobbled together mess that is Wolverine/Spiderman/??? is that Team Tokido is designed to kill you no matter what position he’s in, unless he’s down to just Sentinel. And even then Sentinel is not above clutching it out, particularly if he has xfactor. For your “team” if you lose even one character it’s probably done.
There’s also the problem of meter management on your team. You want at least 2 bars of hyper on your team at all times, probably even more in case the team gets swapped around. Not a big problem but one all the same.
But here’s the biggest problem with this "team: " the opponent needs only 1 hitconfirm to wreck this whole setup. You need AT LEAST 1 to take out 1 character- Phoenix, and that’s not even including the other 2. The odds are not in your favor, to say the least.
That’s not to say it won’t work. Of course it could. But don’t expect a 75% success rate. Hell I wouldn’t even give it a 50/50. Too many problems and redundancies.
Sounds like a lot of theorycraft to me. Last time someone fed me lines of theory and said he’d punish every dive kick, I dove kick him into the ground and he never punished a single one. The fact is, these anti-phx strategies are fresh off the boat and no one has really learned how to incorporate and utilize it effectively yet. I highly doubt that you and your friend playing a session one night means that the strategy doesn’t work.
No offense but I don’t trust your play and I have no reason to. Set this shit up on stream or something so we can see how it is being shut down and if it’s a matter of player skill which is preventing the technique from being realized or the technology actually being shut down. You can beat scrubs with that strategy but I doubt any player worth his salt would lose to that.
Starting Phoenix against a Wolverine? You’re that good? You got any videos of you starting Phoenix? I highly doubt you can start Phoenix against, say, a Wolverine/Spidey/(Dante/Sentinel/Akuma/Doom) In fact, I’ll run Doom just to make sure you can’t go anywhere while I’ll Dive Kick and left/right mixup with Web Swing/Berserker Slash. You ain’t making nobody cry.