He’s great, but not as great as you make him to be. Basically all I’ve seen come out of this update is that it makes it way easier to kill him off as an assist
:rock:
Match ups are a part of fighting games. Learning is them too. Let’s take SFIV’s Zangief. It can be vanilla or Super; doesn’t matter. Let’s say you play a character that has a bad match up against him or even an even match up. Both will likely force you to play differently against Zangief, be it forcing you to poke more, throw more projectiles/zone more, or be more cautious in the way you pressure and mix him up.
Those are “anti-Zangief” strategies. Or in Super’s case, you could just pick Chun and completely shut him down with one move.
Regardless, the logic of “X character makes you play differently in the match up” is very flawed because it is in every fighting game. If you want to charge head first against another character and wildly mash buttons no matter what the match up is, then what is the point of playing the game at a competitive level. You’re likely to have more fun just doing combos in training mode or playing against the CPU.
I would like someone to address this point; pairing Phoenix with Sentinel virtually guaranteed Dark Phoenix. He generated close to two bars just from dying because he had the highest health in the game. Phoenix builds 3/4ths of a bar from dying, and both players begin with one bar each. That’s 75% of the meter required for Dark Phoenix without even landing a hit. Yes, it’s possible to snap Phoenix in and kill her, but that involves not only landing the first hit but also guessing right once you force her into play. A fast point character like Magneto covered by drones is probably going to control the tempo of the match and get in on you first. Also Phoenix isn’t free, she has great tools and she can very quickly turn the tables in her favour.
Fighting games are an ecosystem; everyone’s too preoccupied with how Sentinel’s change after Sentine, and not how they affect other characters as well.
Laughed HARD, wish I could rep this.
After all this show and all this fights in almost 6 threads… I can say this:
Please, stop with the complains, the nerf is done, go, play, enjoy the game and find new ways to counter this. In the future capcom would fix this and some other issues.
And I’m sorry if I was too harsh or non sensical in some comments.
There is a bunch of shit I don’t like about this game, even if I am finding away around it. But im not crying nerf/buff 24/7 so I can get my ass wiped by Capcom.
i agree completely, but my point was simply that not everybody who complains about something is a “scrub” or likes everything handed to them for free or doesnt want to get better at the game
because i take pride in the fact that i honestly dont lose to sentinels anymore in ranked and that is only because i have spent probobly 15+ hours in the training testing stuff with him specifically
again i guess there is not difference between complaining and crying? and even though i will admit i have dont a few post “crying” it was always in a joking fashion or in a thread were it was called for
For the absolute life of me I cannot understand why people don’t get this. I can however conclude that I really hope that the majority of the people in this topic never end up in game development.
making a game such that getting proficient against a single character takes counterpicking or hours of work makes lots of people zone out immediately. most people don’t play a single video game long enough to reach such a high point. they play others, work tons, or do whatever and come to the game to relax. making them work to enjoy a game (aka to beat the sentinel hordes online) goes against the nature of what a game should be.
is a game enjoyable because it’s a way to distinguish yourself against others you compete against? or because it gives you a sense of mastery when you win in a difficult situation? that’s true for some, but those ways of playing a game are subservient to the ultimate goal of having fun. if most people don’t enjoy playing 80% sentinels and having to work to beat him then it means they aren’t having fun playing the game. if 10% of people care about a sentinel nerf i don’t see why they should that 10% should make everyone else play the game they want.
personally i don’t think games should be balanced around the top players. if my friends who come over and play once in a long while can never beat me when i play sentinel fix it for them. i bought the game to play with them, not attend tournaments across the country to play the best fighting game players in the world. that makes business sense too if these less skilled players are frustrated playing online. there are maybe a couple hundred top fighting game players in the world. there are millions more who play for fun.
note that i don’t particularly hate sent. i played captain america so he wasn’t as awful to go up against (he also gives cap a great unblockable setup with sent force assist). but you guys underestimate the number of hardcore gamers who don’t even go online because “the people there are insanely good.” all the ones i’ve met complain about sentinel.
that said, if they continually patch characters it will make the game lose much of the appeal.
The logic is that people are stating that dropping Sent by 400k was unnecessary and when people presented arguments as to how he is overpowered, were simply told by the very people complaining, it’s “too early to tell” and that it will evolve. This in itself is circular logic because you are presuming Sentinel is fine and because there are unforeseen variables. By this logic, if Sentinel is 400k lighter in the health department, the same argument could be applied because saying that it’s unnecessary, you’re making an assessment of the character without taking into consideration the unforeseen variables that have yet to be discovered in the metagame. This is why the whole concept of avoiding balancing to preserve something which no one has perceived yet defies logic and why “it’s too early to tell” is fallacious.
Uh, balance is what it is. You calling it a knee-jerk reaction, doesn’t make it so. You’re simply calling it that because you believe that waiting for an undetermined amount of time will somehow aid in balancing the game. This is more circular logic because balancing is a dynamic process in the sense that changes can be made at any time. And just because a change is made during the early stages of a game’s cycle, doesn’t mean that no further changes will be made in the future. That’s why assuming that a patch in the early life of any game you mentioned is flawed and why people who are balancing the game are doing it. It’s not PR. Just common sense.
Balancing is a dynamic act therefore you can determine what would be a good way to balance him out both now and after the game devellops more. If you are truely a competitive player, you should have no problems evolving with the game.
I’m not acting like you won’t see MvC4. I’m just reminding you why it took so long for MvC3 to come out. Because catering to a select group of neckbeards isn’t how you’re going to make the game successful. Your entire argument is that balance will somehow ruin the metagame when you don’t even know what the fuck it looks like yet. That’s why your line of thinking is flawed. You’re trying to preserve something that doesn’t even exist and think that balancing the game during the course of its life will somehow ruin it and people’s heads will explode because they’re tampering with the timeline. It’s absurd.
While it is true not everyone that complains about Sentinel is a low level player, it’s not unreasonable to say Sentinel’s prowess from release to now has dwindled. Yes, he is a strong character that probably needed to be nerfed, but the problem isn’t necessarily the nerf itself but the way it was handled.
You spending that much time in training mode just to beat Sentinel is admirable but unfortunately, highly subjective. You’re just one of many players. Some players may not spend any time in training mode to learn how to beat Sentinel. Some may just counter-pick with a character like Ammy. Some may grind training mode completely to learn how to beat Sentinel with their team (even if their team may not be very good against Sent in general). Every player deals with matchups differently.
Very good post, but I am curious on your thoughts if they nerfed X-factor instead? It’s not a character, it’s something that affects everyone, but it would also still evolve over time on how to use it IMO.
I feel that the nerf on sentinel isn’t the huge giant problem. He still has all of his tools; he just can’t make as many mistakes.
It’s that Capcom listened to people’s complaints and changed it in a little over a month. It sends a message about Capcom and possibly a precedent that a lot of people did not want to see.
@Meiz, I just want to say that unfortunately I’ve read your entire refuse of a rebuttal attempt. It is unfortunate because I wasted so the minute of my life that would’ve been better spent doing ANYTHING else as you have not only no idea what the heck you’re talking about, I’m not even certain you know wtf you yourself are even saying. Your entire response reads something like a high school student attempting an ethics debate because he read a random post somewhere on philosophy. You call out a very well thought out post by SJ who gave proof and examples from previous situations and accuse it of being used as circular logic when your entire post was a complete exercise in futility. In fact, I’m fairly certain you don’t even have the comprehension to read what SJ was really saying as you lacked the ability to even realize he was posting on the flaws of balance patching on a debatable issue ONE month after release. You should stick more to xbox live forums. Or better yet, off the internet altogether as far as posting goes.
Some of the bitching actually just shows how adversarial and cynical people are at the companies who make the games they claim to love.
It’s as if they can’t conceive ANYONE at Capcom has the tiniest bit of competency. That the team assigned to post-release support for this game should be allowed to continue to improve it*. Or that they’re anything but whimpering slaves to whiny people on message boards.
The ultimate irony of Sentinelgate? That it’s just as likely this vicious assault on the integrity of gaming was put in place weeks before the internet exploded in cries over Sentinel, a time bomb sitting in update certification for four weeks before deploying.
And if so, then this great offense is nothing more that post-release clean-up.
Of course, that’s the problem with it being Sentinel that got tweaked. The character represents a massive straw man argument about whiny gamers being weak-willed. Thanks to it, nobody could make a legitimate argument that Sentinel might have really needed an adjustment sooner than later. And any attempt to fix what might be a legitimate problem will be rationalized as pandering to online players using Sentinel scrub teams.
*Anything to improve that is their own idea. Certainly, they should instantly and within five business days design, code, and integrity check every single feature the expert gamer demands. Spectator mode or bust, baby. But they are not allowed to do anything they think is a good idea, like turn a health slider down. It’s not like they’re game designers or anything.
Circular logic is circular logic. I read what SJ said and identified it as such because everyone who’s stating that the patch is too early is guilty of this. The argument is that if you fuck with a character, you’ll ruin its position in future, presuming they would end up in lower tiers. The thing is that balance patching can happen at any time. This is why saying that “there are flaws at balancing fighting games after x amount of time” is absurd. You’re assuming that balancing something will make it terrible and you won’t be able to change it at a later time.
The whole “it’s too early” argument is ridiculous because of this.
And quit being a douchebag telling me how you can’t understand things, how you’re wasting your time and that I should get off the Internet. You obviously had enough time to write that wall of tardbargle telling me about it.
lulz@Sentinelgate.
Pardon the sf4 reference, god forbid, but this reminds me of Gief. The character everyone loved to bitch about other than gat. But he was more or less free to the top tiers of that game anyway (just like sent). Then here comes the nerf bat.
1 month in…smh… doesn’t give high confidence that players will ever get to play anything other than a beta build of mvc3.
Um, that’s exactly the point though. The idea that you can go back later and fix a fuckup doesn’t make fucking up any more acceptable, because that still has a serious effect on things in the interim.
Can’t take credit for it. It was criticism for this board taken from somewhere else. It seemed like the person was being passive aggressive, so I reposted here.