I disagree with this. If someone approaches he has hammer (of justice) it rapes so hard and is plus on block. Not only that he has better solo anti-airs than most of the cast. st. B and hammer are pretty amazing especially if they are trying to get in from over 1/2 screen. Personally think st. B is his best anti-air dante’s need to stop using S it’s just a death wish, plus B has nearly identical vertical reach, cancellable, and faster : / Really only thing I anti-air with hammer is divekicks (because as far as I can tell only a move invincible for a quadrillion frames doesn’t outright lose to them : /<<< no I’m not salty!) Not to mention he has air throw with the right assist he gets a combo off of.
Also if they are REALLY high j. B->j.B is an easy confirm into dive -> big combo so good air to air dmg. Dante can’t mash A but with pushblock mashing A really never should be your best defensive option imo.
Like maybe I’m not understanding what you mean by getting rushdown. They have to get through a massive wall of normals, bypass the safe invincible move that deals 800k, and not get airthrown. That’s a lot more defense than most characters have. I think defense just sucks in this game PERIOD unless you play tron, of course.
Honestly he doesn’t do anything on the screen better than dante other than be an assist. Literally not one thing I can think of. Dante has invincible moves that for 1 meter deal 800k, Teleport, 1 meter combo’s that deal 900k+ solo, can start dhc glitch, probably is the best character in game to dhc glitch INTO,.
Also Taskmaster is very very not scary if you turtle up also which is not the case for dante,wolvie,wesker, amaterasu, or dante. So he should at least be lower on tierlist than dante : /
i dont play dante currently… but yeah, this makes perfect sense. what characters DO have great defense in this game? basically if you are forced to stop moving in this game… you are probably fucked no matter what character you have besides tron and haggar assists and haggar lariat on point. sure dante doesnt have “get off me” normals like super quick high priority jabs, ala rog or wolvie… but he does have -preemptive normals for keeping folks at arms length… which most characters dont have.
simply put, defense in this game sucks and gets blown up no matter who is blocking… only good reads can get you out.
Well i’ve only been playing with task for just about 3 weeks now, since i do play him on point, i guess its just easier to get in because he has 2 assists to back him up. I think i do need more experience playing with him cuz the way i play him is mostly a zoning character. Sure i do get that hit which follows up to a big damaged combo. But zoning by itself i do feel, he is up there on the ‘tier’ list.
I’m not really comfortable stating his placement on a tier right now, since mvc3 is still in the meta-gaming phase. Since i play him passive/semi-aggresive style, you know i turtle you out, and go in when i need to, kinda play. I do agree that he has that one-dimensional feel about him now that you mention it.
Yeah all of that stuff you mentioned is what I was talking about. His tools to stop rushdown before people get in. All the stuff you mentioned is the stuff you do during the spacing before they close the gap. Even before they force you to block Dante can get put into situations where he just isn’t able to poke anymore because he will just lose in frames once the opponent enters a certain distance on him. Other characters can at least go for the counter poke against a Wesker c.L or c.M at around the same frame but Dante has to pretty much pre emptively throw out a s.L or c.L once they enter a certain distance.
Hammer is good but against people who wait out Hammer if you whiff the hammer you’re forced into a situation where whatever you do after the hammer is going to lose to pretty much anything the opponent does as long as it comes out after you recover. Hammer is a powerful move but it’s only really good for stopping obvious offense. Smart people are going to learn to just wait that shit out and attack him when he whiffs. The hit box on hammer works in a way where if the opponent sticks out buttons it’s easy to catch people with it but the hit box is much easier to deal with and make whiff if you aren’t pressing stuff.
Funny that a lot of the recent Wolverine discussion has been about if he’s #1 or not, and Zero discussion whether he cracks the top 5 or not. But then the last 2 or 3 pages have like four people saying “Zero is better than Wolverine.” Not saying I agree or disagree, just noticing and being amused
It might be an interesting idea to attempt to tier duos as opposed to characters. Just as an arbitrary example, Sent isn’t really considereed top 10 any more, but Magneto Sent has to be considered a top tier duo. Ditto Wolverine Akuma, etc. Who would you guys put as the S and A grade duos?
Also regarding Paper’s S++ tier liking of posts, this is not the only thread in which he’s doing this. It’s really quite impressive actually.
There is defense for sure, it’s just not like a regular fighting game. Blocking’s risk/reward ratio is really low compared to what it normally is. You’re more safe in the air than on the ground - the offensive player wants to stick closer to the ground, and the defensive player is the one forced up into the air chicken-blocking. Unblockables and chip-deaths are pretty practical. 50/50 mix-ups happen constantly that put the attacker at no real disadvantage if they get read properly. There’s no burst, parry or faultless defense mechanic.
Good defense looks like:
[LIST]
[]Being unpredictable with assist calls during the neutral game.
[]Not calling assists (except Tron/Haggar, sometimes) when you’re under pressure. The worst that can happen when you’re being rushed down is that you lose 1 character. Don’t give them 2.
[]Push-blocking that first approach so they don’t get the chance for more mix-ups than one.
[]Hugging the corner against some characters and avoiding it with others.
[]X-Factor Guard Cancels to punish bullshit
[]Crossover Counters. I hope it reaches the point where people abuse these into combos regularly, because it’s another punisher to predictable block strings.
[*]Snapbacks as response pokes due to their lightning fast startup. I’m not sold on this one yet, but I could definitely see it being useful in some situations. They’re faster and safer than reversal supers in many cases, and I see those used all the time.
[/LIST]
I don’t think defense and turtling are viable gameplans in MVC3, but it’s still really important to be good at them, and you do see some players are better at it than others.
Never thought I’d say it, but I kinda miss MVC2 Storm
Tasky is the best zoner in the game, if you are trying to “score that first hit with the right assist” with him you are doing it wrong. You need to be defensive with him and let your opponents come at you, zoning them with arrows and punishing them when you have the chance to.
Yeah the defense in Marvel is mostly the spacing before the gap is closed on you. Once they get in you some options to stop being put in a long combo but generally you dont have anything that just pushes them away instantly on a good read. Advance guard is kinda like your last line of defense outside of guard cancel XF, or invincible safe crossover counter. Which is what I prefer any way. People get in trouble when they get the gap closed on them like the old games.
Yeah certain characters in this game can just call an assist and do a special move and close the gap on you but it’s something people will learn to get around with more play of the game. People will just have to learn to attack during those times when the assist isn’t available and not press buttons when it is available.
Main reasons why keepaway is initially weak is no meter build on whiffing normals so characters that could have potential to be strong it like Storm dont really get the chance because they can’t battery without getting in anymore. Which makes the game more offensive by default. That’s why most of the batteries in this game are offensive types.
I can think of a few reasons why you’d pick Taskmaster over Dante:
[LIST]
[]Lots of health, bigger damage on average for less execution (which matters right now at least, Floe basically elimmed himself from a tournament by dropping 2-3 Dante combos on Rexxor at UFGT7)
[]Better projectiles overall, very strong from the air while falling back.
[]His Legion Arrow DHCs are very versatile for a variety of teams
[]Has a ‘standard’ quick high-durability projectile assist which is easy to add to most teams.
[]His DHC glitch finisher lets you rebuild meter rather than having your bar frozen.
[]Easy unblockable setups with a variety of common assists. Not just quick high/low unblockables, but actual unblockables because of his Swordmaster Head Butt follow-up. People aren’t using these much yet, but they actually work pretty easily during any multi-hitting assist.
[/LIST]
Dante’s definitely a better character overall when you factor in mix-ups, mobility, pokes, etc, but I wouldn’t say Taskmaster is just a weaker Dante. And he’s still very good.
Yeah I’ll admit that I kinda slept on Taskmaster’s potential for offense. The chip on his arrow is so good that he doesn’t really need to force a hit out of you to do damage to you and even basic shit like throws and air throws from him can add up to big damage.
I dont necessarily think Zero is better than Wolverine but I definitely think Zero does well against him or even beats him. Most of the stuff that makes Wolverine scary Zero can just throw swords at.
Taskmaster would likely be lower on the tier list than Dante due to Dante’s superior versatility. But I would say Taskmaster is definitely within the top 10. He may have some trouble landing that first hit without an assist, but once he does, “You’re in for a world of hurt!”
Taskmaster has at least the following going for him:
Above average HP
Some great normals that cover a massive amount of space
Legion Arrows deal more damage than any other single projectile in the game, including Chris’ Magnum, and the chip alone on them is brutal
Extremely useful and simple command specials in Shield Skills and Spidey Swing
Devastating combos that are easy to pull off
Even more devastating advanced combos
Jumping heavy and arrows make for a solid keepaway game that can be made difficult to crack when paired a good assist
The ability to get full damage from his OTG super off of any air throw
I think people disregard his speed also. His dash accelerates very quickly, so that something like Dash -> Shield Skills goes almost full screen incredibly quickly.
I agree with Task being high tier. His only weaknesses is bad air mobility and he has a hard time opening people up with slow normals/bad frame data. That frame data also makes him punishable.
xSAMURAIx, some of your “unbiased facts” seem a bit biased. I’m sure that wasn’t your intention, but as an example, you listed Wolvie as a DHC Trick ender, but not Zero. Yeah, it’s a given, but if we’re listing facts, then shouldn’t we list all of them?
Also, I’d argue that Zero is harder to zone than Wolverine is. Wolvie has Berserker Slash, but if you know how the distance on it works, you can basically always know where Wolvie’s coming from and set up a trap. Against Zero, good luck figuring out exactly what angle he’s going to attack you from, and even if you do know, better luck blocking it.
I’m not doing it wrong, but a lot of characters can out zone or run away from the arrows pretty easily. And when push comes to shove and you actually have to start being aggressive, it’s hard to get hits in with him. That’s all I meant.
