yer but they are both still on week 1 stuff, I think some other characters will bump them down
Week one stuff kills you. That’s all they need honestly. It’s not like they can kill you moar.
Regardless of “week 1” status or not, Logan has instant overheads, auto-correct ambiguous mixups and dive kick priority. Tasky has one of the most damaging projectiles in the game aimable 3 different directions, ridiculous hitbox normals and a day 1 BnB that does 600K and an advanced BnB that does over 1 mil. I’m under the assumption you’re thinking some future hidden technology will overpower their tools. I’m saying that these tools are so basic yet so potent that they will always be good.
Match-ups are tougher to talk about in a team game. Characters options change depending on what assists they have access to. For example, think of how Wesker plays on these teams:
[LIST]
[]Wesker/Iron Man/Phoenix (Viscant’s team) - Can’t use meter or XFactor really, has Iron-Man assist to setup really strong resets.
[]Magneto/Wesker/Akuma (Yipes’ Team) - In this case, can use meter AND XFactor, and has access to one of the best rushdown assists available (Akuma Tatsu)
[*]Wesker/Dante/Trish (Jago’s team) - Has a great trap/teleport mix-up game with Trish’s Peekaboo assist, but no real ‘get in’ assist.
[/LIST]
So when it comes to talking about match-ups, you can talk about teams vs teams, or just character’s options against each other on point in a vacuum, which is kinda pointless.
Jago uses Weasel Shot for Dante’s assist. Weasel shot is like cold star but faster on start up and how long the move is out. It’s a quite good assist.
what are the opinions on storm? just a weak version of magneto? i just came across some old for storm mains, info, but it seems really good:
storm has one of the quickest overheads in the game… even mag cant compare to it. she jumps then immediately double jumps (causes storm wierd float state) then does instant overhead h or s. this can be done repeatedly very fast… and when done after a ground dash, actually has pretty decent range. combined with her trijump cr.l game, she has a very fast high and low game that also has good range.
seems good on paper plus she can dhc trick and has a safe on block launcher of course. in my eyes her primary weakness seems to be that she builds little meter during her combos. maybe shes ass at range cause of her slow whirlwind? can this be solved by using l wind instead? hmmm…
shes also the only character afaik that can call assists while in superjump without having to take a hit first.
so besides meter… what are storms weaknesses that keep her lower than top 10?
just asking cause i am in need of the education, and since theres not much info on her in this thread it would be good to cover her points in here.
-dime
She can call assists with iceskates on or after a straight SJ?
^^^ with iceskates on she can call assists. just cancel homing jump “state” into floaty iceskate state then call assist.
-dime
People have been doing this type of discussion for years in MvC2 (yay, another reference).
You base character rankings both on optimal condition and take into account synergy, tools and their ability to deal with different (sometimes sub-optimal) situations. Storm was ranked better than Magneto in MvC2, Magneto is clearly the rushdown king, but he is forced to rush, while Storm had great rushdown but also had some of the best runaway/chip in the game. “Ideal” situation for Magneto is him in your face backed by Psyblade assist, but many times Psylocke gets killed and punished, Magneto working at a deficit has to work hard to get inside. Contrasted with Storm, anytime she feels like this she can runaway and whiff normals for meter and random hail to chip/punish. Cable is top tier but below the other three because he is assist and meter dependent. This analysis works with both teams and characters, the characters are the same, the matchups just change subtly (or drastically) depending on assists and team order.
Now back to MvC3. We’re talking about Wesker: tool-wise, he’s already clearly top tier. No need to re-list it.
A really important point that Viscant stated is that whether on a Phoenix team or not, he plays Wesker exactly the same, which one of the reasons he’s so strong. Amazing battery that doesn’t need meter to be offensive and deal damage. The fact that he be effective in those different teams and in different positions shows he’s one of the best in the game. Assist-wise, Wesker just needs a horizontal assist like tatsu or unibeam to get inside or crossup, or an assist to help his resets. Even without any assists, any random gun shot or command grab leads into a full solo combo, and he’s still a reset monster after any OTG gunshot.
Now taking these different situations and considerations (on point with assists or as anchor assist-less), who does Wesker lose to? I think he has problems with the dog and Magneto.
nobody saying anything about overpowering, all I’m saying is that some characters get better with time n since there both the finished article , I can see characters being more dangerous than them that are not now .Those 2 characters will not get better while most of the others will , nobody knows what will happen .
I think she’s going to plummet if the DHC trick ever gets patched. She would be doing paltry damage, and the fact that she’s just a poor man’s Mag-fucking-neto would become very apparent.
What tools do you think other characters are going to develop that will become more dangerous than a 1 mil solo BnB or a ambiguous 50/50 into a full combo?
Tasty,
On the issue of Task and Wolverine, I see Task dropping slightly but not much and Wolverine dropping significantly as people improve at keeping him out and punishing some of his tools which are punishable. Task I think will have new technology as people develop swordmaster tech more and stop using 4C in situations that aren’t punishes 5B is a stupid good move that people aren’t using enough.
I have to disagree with you/Viscant here. Wesker can play much differently on not Phoenix related teams, the most obvious part being bringing him in with the DHC glitch which is 2 meters not for DP on a Phoenix team. Other than that giving him access to two assists in pressure is a big deal, and also frees up the space for a reversal/defensive assist like Haggar which he can radically alter his gameplan with. Otherwise I completely agree with ya! 
As for Wesker’s bad match ups IMO they’re pretty limited but some are bad, bad matchups to have:
Trish, (Situationally Dark Phoenix), Magneto, Viper (Marlinpie disagrees on this), Dog, Zero, Taskmaster and Wolverine.
However he dominates a lot of other useful characters like Dormammu, Spencer, and a lot more.
I really wish people would stop calling advanced, intricate combos “bnbs.” Stuff like Zero’s Lightning Loops or Tasky’s 1m combos are not “bread and butter.” They’re highly execution heavy and difficult to pull off in an actual match.
I actually think with (very) solid defensive play Taskmaster and Wolvie won’t seem as great. The problem is arrows (and everything else) does so much damage/chip and Wolvie’s pressure and mixup are so solid, even if they get worse with time, they’ll still be solid and better than most of the cast.
You can still DHC glitch with a Phoenix team. Playing my team, you know I’m not afraid to burn gauge 
.
With different teams, Wesker does have access to different tools, I think his fundamental gameplan never changes. He will teleport around, fire shots and do his basic combo into OTG gun. This works with or without assists, with or without gauge. And it works extremely well. That’s why I think he’s so strong.
Viper matchup I’ll have think about. He can teleport above normal jump height to avoid ground pound and gun on reaction with one button is faster than DP motion seismo. Zero I actually had a lot of experience with this against Ouroboros. The most noticeable problem health, is Zero’s full advanced combo does not kill Wesker, while Wesker has no problems doing 800k with a team hyper. Wesker can also counter super on prediction which prevents reckless mashing. Still, I think it might be even, maybe Zero’s favor. Similar stuff with Wolvie, counter hyper keeps him on his toes, Wesker should just runaway gun with this matchup, IMO.
BnB = general go-to combo. It’s just semantic, it means the combo you will (or should be) going to 90% of the time.
If the situations to start a combo are simple and it’s found that execution-ally they aren’t impossible to consistently do they’re still the go to combos for the character. Something that’s not a B&B requires corner or strange situations to set up that you can’t get off of your normal poking/pressure/mix up game.
Task’s 1M combo is mostly stable, I don’t have training mode and probably have a 60% accuracy with hitting it, Dacidbro hits it at least 85% of the time maybe more.
Zero’s lightning loop though is way harder agreed, don’t know anyone who consistently does that on hit yet.
EDIT:
@Tasty:
Without a horizontal assist Wesker should not be doing teleport shenanigans against the majority of the cast as a lot of them can punish it. His assists are incredibly important to how he plays.
As for Viper-Wesker: He has a bad time in close against Viper and her not having an issue with his health is very bad. Thanks to how tiny her hit box is in the air and in Viperball state gun is not an effective tool at keeping her out if she has any kind of horizontal assist whatsoever, especially Taskmaster and crew.
As for seismo versus gun, it is impossible to seismo on reaction to gun (Other than EX) and it’s equally difficult to gun on reaction to seismo thanks to how quickly she gets to block. Either one needs to be done on prediction. The lag on teleports in the air make them incredibly dangerous against Viper especially one who’s air throw happy as she has an incredibly weird throw range from coming up from under someone. I don’t think Wesker’s free, but I think it’s definitely a bad match up for him.
Zero-Wesker: This match is heavily in Zero’s favor IMO, buster shot is the bane of Wesker’s existence, all of them. The blue and green ones cover an obnoxious space to both prevent teleports and force blocking, while the L3 busters blow up gun for free and lead to a combo. Wesker sans level 3/3 person team hyper combo needs to combos to kill Zero, Zero sans level 3 and 3 person team hyper combo needs to combos to kill Wesker. Zero’s normals are really good against Wesker and L3 buster is one of the only things that can easily blow up the gun on reaction. This match is at least 6-4 Zero’s favor. However if Zero rushes down instead of playing cautiously a random hit from Wesker hurts way too much. Cautious Zero gives lots of problems for a lot of characters.
EDIT: The problem with charge shots is they control space but don’t deal damage, trying to trade projectiles against Wesker is hard unless you have Sougenmu active. Given any stray damage, Wesker can convert hits into a basic combo and finish off with Michael Vick and Zero is liable to die. Zero has to do a full juggle off a clean hit and lightning loop if he wants a chance at killing Wesker in one combo.
Teleports are punishable without assist cover but it’s not as simple as punishing something like Dante’s where you can just jump air throw on reaction. Wesker can put you in block stun with his gun then cancel into teleport, with L you have to gauge to distance on whether it will cross up or not, H you can try throwing but it’s still a guess. Without assists Wesker has to be careful teleporting offensively, but he still has jump gun teleport down which is super safe, and M teleport to run away.
The Raikousen loop is hard because not only do you need repeated TK DP motions, you need to do them at a consistent height or it will drop.
My “easier than lightning loop” BnB with Zero does a little over 800K with two assists (Dante and Taskmaster), over 900k with drones assist. Like Viper, Zero can get high damage with the right assists throwing in as many special moves after the juggle into OTG and before the hyper. I’d practice the lightning loop which is strictly better than a single Rekkoha, but I’m busy playing Tekken .
Advanced BnB’s should be called “BLT” combos then, as it’s easy to pull off, but require a bit more than BnB’s.
Also, I agree about Task’s BLT… it’s pretty stable, not hard to get off, and you can remove one of the relaunches if you want and just go straight into his Legion Arrow. Online it’s not as consistent as his BnB, though.
BnB’s don’t refer to the difficulty, it means that you can do it in virtually every and any situation.