i can’t even imagine how you put up that team. it must be a struggle. and i thought i had it rough as a juri user in ssf4. but eh, at least she wasn’t koto lol.
I mained Makoto in SSF4 and Sakura in Vanilla, I’m used to having my balls smashed by playing bad characters.
i think its a pretty solid list for now. obviously its gonna change in the coming months and i think x23 and viper will definitely go up.
Viper is fucking good. As good as Chrisis says? Eh I don’t think so, but top 5? Very likely.
And if you think Viper doesn’t have damage you’re out of your mind. One of the only characters that can output over 1.1 million without DHC trick on any hit, scaled but similar damage from any height air grab. Her damage is HIGH.
viper, ironman are really good, but the community thinks that, high execution characters == bad.
Then why is Dante top tier in every list?
He’s top tier because he’s a problem no matter what. You play against some random day negative one online dante you still have to worry about ridiculous normals that cover half the screen, always having to worry about random teleports so if you play a character that’s more focused on zoning you have to be air throwing them every 2 seconds instead of playing your character, relatively easy 500k killer bee into million dollars combos that they will bust on you on a hit like clockwork and of course random spamming of overhead sky dance that you’re really supposed to be using in combos but it leads to combos on hit so they’re gonna do it. It’s not like Viper or Iron Man where there’s nothing to worry about when fighting a bad one. A bad Dante like a bad Wesker is still somewhat of an issue to deal with.
Then you have high execution, more thoughtful Dante which ends up getting all of that stupid shit plus more stupid shit like access to 30 different projectiles, use of a mini x factor that gives him the best beam projectile in the game and another move which turns him into a projectile and makes him completely invincible and can go into combos, a move that hits overhead and is plus 23 on block, the fact that you’ll never whiff punish anything they do because they can bold cancel fucking everything, some purple rain move that sets up a free 50/50 into combo anytime you kill somebody and the next character is coming in and can start looping into itself on hit, proper use of assists with his teleport so he can 50/50 you whenever he wants, the ability to kill you one combo with or without dhc glitch…like what does that character NOT DO?
Not to mention Jam Session and Weasel Shot are 2 very good assist.
Viper’s normals are pretty sad. She doesn’t have the mindless high priority mashing attacks like some characters have, but aside from that she has a lot of damage. I know about 3 different combos to get 1M+ damage with just her alone insanely powerful. Take that into fact that to get her combos your net gain for meter is around -.5 up to 1.5 meters after using 2 or even 3 Hyper meters that is pretty insane. Her mobility is insane. Her cross up potential is insane when placed with the right assists. Her Burning kick is the most underrated move. She can tick throw better than anyone in the game. Her throws, ground or air can lead from 450k up to 700k+ damage. Quite possibly the most versatile air reset throws and she has a dirty 50/50 if they know you’re going to air reset into a throw or you know they’ll mash buttons. EX BK. She has instant overheads from any of her normal moves into canceled BK. She has very good ground zoning. GTFO me EX seismo move
She can run about 4 heavy kicks in the air in one jump within about 10 frames or less of each other. Still working to see if that will be a viable air tactic because you can hit confirm a Heavy kick into another into an S (land) and continue a combo.
Highest priority invincible EX moves, enough said there.
Tack that onto a beam killing hyper that counters nearly anything in the game with a lot of invincibility on startup and can DHC into almost anything.
Her Level 3 is useless for the most part good instant counter if you’re close enough to someone doing a random hyper or read a projectile. Shouldn’t use it in combos. You can do much more with 3 hyper bars.
Only problem with her is crap normals, high execution, has a hard time getting in sometimes without a good horizontal assist. Doesnt DHC well from other characters into her. Very few that do. Difficult learning her seismo game correctly and efficiently.
I think there’s some characters that the community have to dig more into, or simply a top player does good with him and everybody bandwagons
because they see his/her potential. IMO; Viper and Ironman are heavily underrated. Viper, well it’s already been discussed how good she is.
Iron-Man I think is great, but I might be living too much in MVC2. He has one of the best mid-range games in the game, if not the best to be
honest. His j.m and j.h are great tools for spacing and his unibeam is a great projectile, coupled with TK Smart Bomb and regualr ones, he
can control space like he did in MVC2 (or atleast to some degree). His main combo started might be a little awkard but players could get used
to.
Doom in top 10? I thought so until yesterday, when I finally got to play some great players. Doom as my last character is very hard to deal with.
He’s comeback factor is not good at all, people could be runnning from for days. But what Doom has is that if he is played correctly, he is godlike.
J.m to hit people in the air followed by j.6H caught them a lot of times, Backthrowing Dante’s teleport led to a huge damage combo, and just his
ability to keep pressure in many different ways is amazing. Doom has a lot of problems with characters such as Amaterasu, Magneto, Dante,
Wesker, and most of the top 7 or so. He has some bad match-ups but he can turn the tides in the match in a second. I think he is upper or at the
very top of the middle tier at the very least, but he still need more experimentation.
Zero is main so I would like to give my opinion on him. Many people think of Zero as just high priority normals and great teleports and they
automatically think he is great, but that’s what he can do once he gets in. Zero needs an assist no matter what to be effective, to cover his
teleports, to help his zoning, but most importantly to help him get in. Apart from his 1 touch health, getting in with Zero one of his worst
weaknesses. Zero without an assist get zoned extremely well because of his punishable teleports and mediocre air-dash, but he also has his
good side obviously. Buster could be one of the top 5 best moves in the game, seeing how you can combo on hit, and on block it leaves you at
+2 so no risk on firing it. It can continue blockstings and punish from a far distance with it’s speed. Zero’s combos build TONS of meter, and he
really doesn’t need meter to do damage (my BnB meterless does 748k, even do he needs assists). His teleports make amazing mix-ups, and his
ability to combo from a forward air-throw helps his reset and air game even more. Then comes what people call “random” about Zero, because
they don’t know what is really happening. Zero’s j.H covers a lot of space and can hit people from getting away on the other side, but people
call it random because it sometimes crosses-up, but this is only if the other players moves causing it to hit on their back. Zero has troubles in
match-ups such as Taskmaster and Dante, but mostly good zoners. He has good match-ups IMO against
Wesker, Sentinel, She-Hulk, Tron, Haggar (9-1 imo), Doom, and goes 5.5 or even with Magnus. So just to resume all this, Zero I think is Top 15 at
the very least, most likely Top 10 just below the Taskmaster and Wolverine.
What move is that?
Dante isn’t as technically demanding as Iron Man or Viper; I think. Once you get Bold Cancel/BC Teleport down (not too bad), it’s all about dedicating yourself to remembering long sequences of special move dominate combos - which ironically, makes them easier in a sense.
The Hammer. It also has a lot of invincibility frames as well. Definitely one of Dante’s best moves IMO and can hit behind him as well like almost every fucking move he has.
Would it be better to have 2 tier lists? I know id be more work but 1 for assists and 1 for non-assist? I think otherwise its going to be hard because you got characters like Doom who are generally considered bad as a non-assist but top when it comes to assist.
it only has 5 frames of grounded recovery and a buff hitbox too, so in all likelihood you can’t even punish it once he’s done it (if he does it properly – too high off the ground and it becomes unsafe), even if you make it whiff. I’ve switched my team around to put Wesker on point just so I can stop bullshit like Wolverine dive kicks and Dante Hammers easily with his counters…
NOPE
Doom is a potent point character. He has one of the best beams in the game, a good tri, can dash cancel all normals, solid damage and has good, flexible combos. His qcb hyper(finger lasers) sucks on the ground though.
His Hammer move (do qcf+L during his air qcf+L with just frame timing before the air qcf+L activates). The funny thing about that move is it wasn’t even mentioned in the original SRK hyper guide and even in the strategy guide they tell you how to do the move but…they still dont tell you exactly. Basically it’s a follow up to his killer bee where you have time just frame time the motion before the killer bee comes out (dive kick move). If you time it correctly before killer bee activates it turns into a move where Dante spins into a golden somersault and crashes down on top of you. The move has about 19 frames start up but its invincible during almost all of those 19 start up frames. On top of that it gives you plus 20 on block if they block it so you get combos if it hits and get to do whatever you want if its blocked. He can TK and activate the move very low to the ground so it’s basically a move he can use as a reversal that overheads also. Luckily the range on the move isn’t that great but he can set it up easily with assists.
Well I know whatever combos people are doing now will only get better as people find more technical stuff. A lot of his combos definitely can be performed just by remembering special into special into special. Most of his execution takes place before he hits you to keep his moves safe.
I’m not a big fan of assist tier lists. If anything it wouldn’t be bad to make a list of point + assist combinations that are strong but an actual tier list just based on assists is just kinda redundant. There’s good ones and there’s not good ones and it’s pretty obvious which is which. Most characters that are designed to be scary rushdown on point like Wolverine, Wesker, X23, Magneto, Felicia, Jill etc have sub par assists to make up for what they are capable of on point.
Characters with stronger abilities towards the zoning side of the spectrum or can’t close the gap very well on point like Doom, Tron, Haggar, Hulk, Arthur, Hsien Ko etc tend to have stronger assists or at least one assist that people consider a power house assist.
Ok maybe that was a bad example, but you know what i’m trying to get at. Some characters have good assists but are bad at actually fighting or vice-versa.
tron an haggar are prime examples of that tron is listed better than she is based on the usefulness of her assist
Yeah in Marvel 2 characters like Captain Commando, Doom and Psyloccke were considered high tier mainly because of their assist. On point they were obviously not quite as scary.
Doom on point is really slept on and it’s mainly because of his execution barrier like Iron Man to play effectively on point.