- Phoenix
- Wolverine
- the rest
These 2 characters… ugh…
Well Spencer is pretty good for what he can do. His level 1 bionic arm is a big scare factor outside of combos also which is big. You have to constantly respect Spencer because he has a level 1 super that comes out at the same speed as Magneto’s L disruptah. Definitely not a character you can just go in and do stuff toespecially if he has meter to safe DHC if it’s blocked or turns on XF. Zip line allows for a lot of unique high low mix ups. He has the scrub’s favorite command overhead plus a command grab. Meaning he has a lot of easy ways to open you up once he gets in that other characters wish they had. Meter builds stupid easy in this game so fiending for meter is not that big of a deal.
It’s interesting that he put the first 5 of the top 10 in an order with Phoenix being only 5th best. I kinda have to agree because while the character is the best…she’s just random. When a character has to rely on random factors like the power of XF3 and having 5 meters to be successful…something bad is going to happen at too high of a rate to be consistent. The more people play the game the worse it’s going to get for a character like that. A lot of the times when she wins even as XF3 D.Phoenix it’s usually because the opponent did something stupid as hell like try to fight her for more than 2 seconds in the middle of the stage where she has like an 18 way mix up with her double H fireballs. Which is why Akuma does so well against her. Turtle up by jumping backwards towards the back of the stage and if she does any shit just beam her out of the match. Being in the corner eliminates more than half her mix up. You give her the ability to air throw you into death combo but that’s can be teched and still better than 18 way mix up.
Dante, Mags, Phoenix, Wesker, Wolvie, Ammy, Tasky are top Im pretty sure we can all agree on that… So when is a actual tierlist going to be made im pretty sure we can make a rough official one now even though it would be subject to change in a few months
I see people praising Spencer a lot. Am I the only one who thinks he’s not that good? Sure, you’ve got to be careful when playing against him, but that’s just adapting to a match up. Learning his match up is not that hard, and it involves destroying his offence completely. He has no safe, easy way to approach people alone.
I admit things change considerably when paired with a slow, long ranged assist like Arthur’s daggers (case in which he really becomes scary), but does this factor into tier lists? Because if not he’s just a character that’s easy to counter.
I figured by now IPW would have their own little tier list or whatever like they did. I guess it’s a bit harder to assess because since the game is team based it’s a bit harder to evaluate matchup to matchup for every character. As the game goes on a lot of how well a character does vs. another will definitely be very assist related.
In my theory tier list the number 1 character is Dante. Especially with a solid low hitting assist and another protection assist I dont see what that character can’t do. Gets his own mini XF that gives him the best beam in the game and a flying special move that goes through Phoenix’s H shots and 1 hit kills her. Swords have ridiculous hit boxes and you’ve always gotta be on guard against his teleport especially when covered with an assist that’s harder to react to than Wesker’s. Slow start up normals aren’t a huge deal because his L’s have amazing hit boxes and still come out in at least 8 frames. If someone actually gets in on Dante they deserve every reward they get because of how god awful hard getting in on one with covered assists is. Especially if they’re in DT mode. This character will never leave top 5 and I easily see him surpassing Wolvie as number 1 and most likely will eventually beat Wolverine because his spacing game is perfect for dealing with dumb shit like Wolvie.
In a realistic what’s happening in tournaments right now tier list…Wesker is number 1 for me. He’s the current magic man but Dante will easily surpass him eventually. Even without assist his normals all leave him at negative 1 at worst. Meaning you have to XF guard cancel to punish anything he does on block. A lot of other characters like Captain America can’t do anything but throw light attacks when they dont have an assist. At the same time that’s really the way you should be playing Wesker any ways is just ticking with c.L’s because that sets up his one frame command grab a lot easier. IMO command grab is the only really scary thing he has at close range other than c.L or c.M. His teleports are awfully easy to punish without assists but most people are just so afraid of Wesker porting around and dont have any idea of how laggy and long you have to hit him during the L teleport. The H teleport which normally looks like some unpunishable DBZ shit on streams you can walk under because it doesn’t track and hit him or air throw him before he lands. The more people learn about Wesker the more Wesker is going to have to cover everything he does with an assist. Wesker should be getting hit pretty much anytime he does a teleport without an assist but it will be a while before people fight Wesker to that level of play. Either way the teleports still give him a unique way to close the gap and create mix ups with assists that most of the other cast doesn’t have access to. He’s also conveniently more stupid in XF2/3 where his teleports are actually legit hard to react to even without an assist.
Well you just explained Marvel in a nutshell. A lot of the characters are designed to have some kind of flaw that’s covered with a good assist. Pretty much any character in the game becomes much more of an issue when covered with the right assist. Not that I play Spencer but I’m sure him covered with a solid projectile assist and a low assist really augments his pressure and offense. He’s definitely not a character you want out there solo unless he’s got XF backing him up but his ability to control space and set up mix ups and instill fear with the 7 frame start up bionic arm has a lot of utility.
Wesker is kind of the same deal. People make a big deal about his magical teleports and command grabs but it really needs to be backed up by an assist to be most effective. Wesker players are still running through teams without using XF or barely using an assist whenever they teleport and that’s mostly due to the opponent’s lack of understanding of the matchup. Anytime Wesker does a teleport near the opponent without an assist he’s liable to get blown up. He can be hit during the start up and during the recovery on all of his ground teleports. The H teleport that gives him the Dante style left right overhead mix up is spacing dependent since it doesn’t track the opponent and if you know he’s going to appear on top of you, you can just walk or dash under it and screw up his spacing and punish him. L teleports are absolute garbage without assist. If you actually try to move near the opponent with a L teleport without an assist, you should be eating a fat combo.
Someone who knows how to fight Wesker will literally purposely place their character in a position where if he teleports and doesn’t call an assist they can easily punish by pressing buttons at the recovery of the L teleport or walking under and punishing the H teleport. Yet all you have to do is get a nice assist to cover the teleport and all of those issues turn into strong advantages.
That’s also why it’s hard to immediately make a tier list. So much of what factors into a tier list for Marvel is dependent on assists. A good character placed with a certain type of assist can have a completely different matchup against another character.
How come no one ever puts Zero in top 5 and sometimes not even top 10? He’s so good!
Also am I the only one that feels like Wesker is really overrated? Once you learn to fight the character, he’s really not THAT scary. Especially by himself.
I don’t think Spencer is scary outside the glitch , to me anyways he’s slow and obvious , but I’m very open minded here
I personally think Zero is top 10 but I guess you can only put so many characters in the top 10 at once. He has all the tools to win and has sword normals that basically act as self assists that keep him from ever getting hit. The only time you can actually hit Zero is if he whiffs something. You can’t actually play a poking/spacing game vs. Zero. His normals are basically projectiles and you will get hit everytime trying to swing at him unless you’re like Dante or something. If you ever get hit while playing Zero…that’s your problem because you really shouldn’t have been getting hit. He has an 18 frame active j.H that covers his whole body and triple overheads. The only liability to playing Zero is that some characters are a bit faster than he is and his mix up is a bit easier to react to when not covered by an assist. As long as Zero has an assist helping him out plus his crazy good charged buster shot (which leads to instant death on hit or heavy frame advantage and goes through advance guard on block) you’re good to go.
Like my top 10 is Wesker, Dante, Ammy, Phoenix, Wolverine,Magneto, Zero, Dormamu, Akuma She Hulk.
Wesker - Current guy that gives everybody problems, is very fast and versatile on offense and defense and although can’t really approach too safely without assists he definitely still does better without assists than a lot of the other cast. People call him the magic man but he’s only really close to magical with assist. Without assist he’s very predictable becuase the only way he can safely approach is by wave dashing. Despite that his health is strangely too high for what he is capable of and one of the few pixie types that has a legit zoning game and can use that zoning game to lead to free combos. People say he has legit problems against Magneto but I dont really see it. He’s one of the few mix up/get in types that has a projectile that completely destroys the angle that Magneto needs to get in and can combo him from full screen off of a bad tri dash into big damage. He even has a projectile counter which makes him a legitimate threat even agaisnt D.Phoenix.
Dante - He would be number one on my list except him being number 1 would be more based on theory right now than actually what happens in tourneys. Wesker is the “you can see it on stream” number 1 but once people start playing this game at a level that’s more complicated than ABCS Dante is just going to shine like something ridiculous. He has so much potential that I’m not even going to list it cuz I feel it would take up too much space. LOL.
Ammy - Undeniably powerful character. Effective at any range and has the game’s lowest profile hit box. She’s still a bit wide for a short character which makes her a bit susceptible to cross mix ups but the fact that she can standing walk under Sent’s low spit is hilarious. She has low health but the main reason people have trouble with her is hitting her like Zero is like trying to pick popcorn kernels from your teeth. You just have to somehow do it and she has plenty of ways to avoid getting hit while being at a great angle to hit you. Has hail storm style super that can hit you from anywhere on the screen (although it’s a bit more unsafe) and has like 3 different attack stances all with their own unique utility that people seem to find new uses for like everyday. Her combo damage without DHC glitch isn’t awesome but if you have meter you can level 3 to finish someone off or turn on XF.
Phoenix - Basically changes the way you have to play the game. Not really going to get into this much since it’s pretty obvious why she’s good. I still think she’ll never be consistent though at big events because of her ability to be randomed out and good players are starting to come up with a lot of really strong snap back mix ups that can kill her fast. Even when that doesn’t work and she turns into D.Phoenix there’s at least 4 or 5 characters that give her a legitimate problem where she could just instantly die. If the opponent turtles out your XF then you’re just regular D.Phoenix who legitimately has more of a problem vs. a lot of the cast. Either way when she works she works incredibly well so undeniable high tier.
Wolverine - I really think this guy is just going to get more and more figured out as time goes on but he’s hella good. He’s basically the SFIV Bipson of the game where you dont need to know much of anything and can still see results against most of the cast. Wolverine basically plays himself. You get a left right mix up just by calling an assist and then doing a special move that has invincibility frames in the middle of it. If that’s not easy mode I dont know what is. I feel with time people will learn to space themselves more effectively against his berserker slash which may give him problems but as long as he covers it with an assist it will always be a problem.
Magneto - I would place him higher if there weren’t other good characters. Sub par ground normal game but his ability to control the air with gdly OS air throws and a 7 frame start up projectile make him a legitimate problem against most characters. The fact that he can do DHC glitch damage and can build and use his own level 3 just by having execution is pretty crazy. Another character that gives Phoenix legitimate problems. If other pixie characters close the gap on him he has legitimate problems because he can’t really do much other than pray for a grab or mash on shockwave safe DHC into someone else but his overall damage potential and ability to grab and death combo just about anyone keeps him high for me.
Zero - This character is just…stupid. He requires work and execution but when he has it it’s just taxing to fight him. His sword normals beat out 99 percent of the other character’s normals. That plus charged buster means you always have to respect because if either lands on a hit you’re probably going to die. His pillar super has great utility for killing off a character quickly and if he catches 2 characters it’s a great way to kill off 2 characters fast. His game is a bit easier to deal with if he doesn’t have an assist available but Zero swinging around swords and buster while going left and right with dash special and assist is some of the most nerve racking stuff to fight against in the game. He’s a character that you MUST kill when you hit him. If you let Zero live after you hit him, you will probably die. Low health (as little of an issue as it is in this game) and not being quite as scary without assist are his only real issues.
Dormammu - One of the original anti Phoenix characters. Flame carpet is annoying as fuck. Basically acts as his own assist that breaks him out of combos if you try to get near him. It hits low so he can use it to set up unblockables off his teleport. People say he’s reliant on meter but with the tools he has available to him I dont really see it. The super meter just makes him better than he already is. Solid tri dash game for good self mix up, teleport, probably the longest ranged normal cross up in the game…he’s got something for just about everything. He has a bit of trouble dealing with characters that can easily angle themselves on top of his head like Zero or X23 but with a good assits helping to cover that spot he can deal with that. With meter and XF he can literally kill you through chip damage.
Akuma - another one of the anti Phoenix characters. I feel he’s a bit easy to lame out if he’s not covered with assist but beam super ensures you wont be going near him anytime soon without having problems also. A tatsu that goes through projectiles with the right spacing, ground and air fireball, lots of potential for overhead and cross up mix ups once he ever gets in etc. His normals are really short ranged but they have pretty fast start up and his fireball supers and his fast meter build allow him to basically DHC into himself for huge damage. His wave dash is kinda meh and he has a bit of trouble IMO hitting people at the top right corner of the screen but if he can bring them back down it’s certain problems for the opponent.
She Hulk - Not so scary without assist but give her even one solid assist and she just turns into big problems. Literally has like 100 percent mix ups after she touches you with the first combo. Her j.H has a retarded hit box that’s very difficult to air throw or anti air. A lot of the time you’re forced to just push block it and hope she didn’t call an assist. The fact that she has that much health plus decent speed means you have to be on your toes the whole time she’s on the screen. She has a bit of trouble dealing with characters that are faster than her or have strong zoning game but once she gets in she’s usually in the advantage.
yes you’re the only one
I think Wesker is very good point for a Phoenix team because of all the reasons you state but I find that Wesker really needs an assist. Without it, he plays like a very standard rushdown character as his teleports all become punishable and really only becomes a threat again with XFC. I’m not sure about putting Magneto second to fix the problem as his biggest strength is his ToD’s which often uses a level 3 or DHC glitch to make them more stable. Were I to run a Wesker Phoenix team, I’d rather insert Ammy as the second or Doom but I never put time in for him ;).
Were I to run a Magneto Phoenix team, it would likely be Magneto, Sentinel, Phoenix or even Magneto Phoenix Sentinel as Phoenix with Sentinel assist is quite good.
Yeah I agree DJ, Zero honestly has no excuse for getting hit when it comes to footsie and poking. He pretty much controls the whole fight. With lightning loop available, albeit hard, theoretically zero should kill you off a single hit at any time, and we all know getting one hit with Zero isn’t hard at all. He’s only really held back by the fact that he’s blatantly a point character unless ran for the DHC glitch, but you could say the same for Wolvie and he’s top 2 for most people.
Smexy’s avatar is hilarious.
Zero is upper top 10…and, yeah, you may be the only one who thinks that about Wesker.
Wesker is so well rounded that it’s not funny. Unless you use Wesker, then you’re laughing all the way to the bank.
While I think most agree that his mix-up (without assists) is poor even with his overhead and command grab, he does change the dynamics of the game when he’s out.
If the other player doesn’t respect Bionic Arm, they get blown up and probably lose their assist at the same time. If they do respect Bionic Arm, then it heavily limits the moves/movement they can do, and when they can call assists. That’s great for Spencer.
In a lot of ways, he just really slows down the game to his speed.
On the subject of buffs, you know what buff I’d like to see?
Dormammu getting the ability to XFC or THC cancel flame carpet.
Nope, I agree with the Wesker part completely.
I mean don’t get me wrong, Wesker is good but he’s no where near as ridiculous as wolverine, phoenix, magneto, etc etc. How is he going to approach? You know what wesker wants… gunshot to teleport assist cross up, wave dash in and use his good pokes… he he takes to the air he’s only got one way to go unless he teleports because of his movement options. Raw teleports can be punished by a watchful eye and if you outpoke him, he’s going to have trouble on the ground. He’s solid, don’t get me wrong… but people putting him as #2?
Top 10 IMO and no where near the best.
For Dorm, I think a huge huge HUGE buff would be just to increase the hitboxes on his normals a little. st.M and cr.M have really shitty vertical hitboxes and often miss on people crouching. On top of that, if you connect say… cr.A st.B, launcher will whiff sometimes because it’s hit box is smaller than the medium attacks. For a zoning character, his pokes could be a bit stronger.
Flame carpet being special / super cancelable would be nice too so you could have a way to hit confirm off attacks from a distance where launcher will whiff. Otherwise I think he’s great. Maybe give him something to handle projectile fights a little better. It’s surprisingly hard to win in a long range fight with him IE: Sentinel spamming lasers with hidden missiles and shit. Why have a zoning character that has trouble vs zoning? lol
Maybe this is scrubby of me but I feel like some characters should be made a bit easier / more consistent as well IE: Iron Man and what not. Turning hits into damage with him, even basic combos, is surprisingly difficult.
Admittedly I do also feel that with time Wesker will be exploited for his faults in that he pretty much needs an assist to get in without being predictable. Which even then people will just learn to make sure they have a good assist available to keep him safe. As far as who does the best on streams…it’s without a doubt the bad guy of RE. When he’s backed up with a good assist or is in XF2/3 you rarely see him do bad.
To me, the scariest aspect of Dante is his amazing screen control. Good Dante players can literally flood the screen with bullcrap from a distance that is impossible to punish without a beam of some kind, and then he can immediately be in your face through use of his teleport or wave dash or air dash. When midscreen, his jumping heavy covers almost half the screen, and on top of that it hits behind him, so teleporting behind to cross up is not an option. Once he gets in that single hit, it’s combo city, and unless you’re playing a character with over a million health you’re likely very dead. Unless of course, he decides to DHC glitch, then you’re most definitely dead no matter who you are.
Dante is just one of those characters who doesn’t seem to have any apparent weaknesses, and it will be these characters that will dominate the streams and tournaments over time.
Not to discredit the character, I think he’s among the top for sure, but what does Dante do about Phoenix once she’s out with 5 meters?
Often I see him as point on a team so it seems rare that it would come down to him to finish her, but what options does he have once she’s armed and dangerous?
I actually still have in at #5 or so. But yea, his teleports are totally predictable as his gunshot->teleport. If you know your spacing you will know if he will either end up behind you from his A and C version of his teleport so that should negate the left/right mixup part and then you can react to if he is in the air or on the ground to negate the high/low. When he gets the proper assist it becomes a little trickier, however, ntohing special that a lot of other character with solid left/rights can’t do.
I feel Wesker is really high because he bodies the lower ranks a lot better than most of the upper/top characters due to his absurd health. The lower characters can get 1 touch and have Magneto, Ammy, Zero, Dante on life support, but Wesker can survive the apocolypse. So you are going to have to open him up more than once.
I don’t like Wesker in the Ammy, Zero, and Wolverine matchups because he can’t control the ground with his airsoft gun. Plus Wolverine has a better ground left/right game than Wesker does. He can’t really stop ammy from string beaning herself from the air in and when she gets close comes those high/low mind games. Magneto, set up with the proper DHC glitch team, is a TOD character even for Wesker. Magneto has the easiest time getting that first hit than anyone. I feel Weskers only shot in that matchup is to hopefully shoot him out of the air->teleport and get a combo back down for a mix up, if you guess right you can kill him, if you don’t then you fucked up.
People just don’t respect the range of Wesker’s ground normals enough and their range. I still see people trying to punish Wesker ground series which still boggles my mind because people should know by know he is ridiculously safe.