MvC3 Actual Balance/Potential Tiers Discussion

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
4701

Minus a couple here and there, for the most part I think a lot of these buffs are actually pretty good.

As far as Chris’ H. Grenades getting a buff, I would probably just leave them as is personally. They’re pretty awesome as they are, and if you get someone in the corner with a string of them they’re gonna lose a ton of life. I like the idea of some of his air gunshots firing horizontally however, but I don’t play Chris enough to know how drastically that change would affect his gameplan.

I do have to say that your idea for Vector Drain causing a ground bounce is the best idea ever.
If VD caused a ground bounce it would move from being “completely pointless” to “pretty useful”.
Morrigan still has a lot of problems but that would be a move in the right direction.

4702

I could design a character that could instantly win a match, but in order for it to happen you had to hit 90 1-frame links in a row and then input a reverse Raging Demon. Potentially the best character in the game if you could pull this off, but incredibly impractical, and thus would be a garbage tier character.

One can discuss potential combos, damage, counters, ect. until MvC4 comes out but until people get to a level where they consistently pull of the stuff we theory fight about then the tier lists can’t really be adjusted. When they DO get there, then we can talk about moving characters up and down the lists.

4703

I just think tier lists are sexy, and I need more wank material for tonight.

I think Hulk isn’t the worst character ever, he’s certainly not high tier but I can see him being mid/low-mid tier because of retarded good standing H, a (not the best but still there) command throw and a little bit of pressure with gamma charge AA H follow up.

4704

cap’s sheild hits on return unless a HARD KNOCKDOWN STATE?! LOL!

WOW sign me up for THAT captain america to main holy cow that’d be ridiculously broken.

4705

So lets get some 3 character team talk going on here. I don’t know about you guys but I’ve been watching EMP Mugetsu on the streams and I’m thinking his two teams Mags/Sent/Dante and Dante/Tron/Mags are the best three character teams I’ve seen so far. Other opinions?

4706

S Tier:

Phoenix
Magneto
Ammy
Wesker
Dante

A Tier (No particular order):

Wolverine
Storm
Tasky
Doom
Sentinel

B Tier (No particular order):

Zero
Spidey
Trish
Dormammu
Akuma (I haven’t seen alot from him)
Deadpool
Viper
She-Hulk
X-23
Spencer
Iron Man

C Tier (Again, no particular order):

Viewtiful Joe
Ryu
CapAm
Hulk
Chun-Li
Tron
Felicia
Chris Redfield
MODOK
Haggar
Morrigan
Thor
Super-Skrull
Thor
Jill

D tier:

Shuma-Gorath
Arthur
Hsien-Ko

Let me explain some of my more surprising placements.

Doom: I placed him Top 10, because he does quite alot of damage and he is one of the better zoners in the game. One of his combos do 700k with one meter, which is pretty good. His beam is one of the best one’s in the game and all three of his assist are really freaking good. Oh, not to mention that his hidden missiles are combo breakers.

Zero: Yes he does do a shit load of damage. Like ALOT. But he needs an assist to do that much and he is not a very good anchor. If I were to have a choice to play either Zero or Arthur as anchor, I would pick Arthur instantly…

Ironman: Look, I know he is difficult to play with and his normals are ass, but quite frankly, he does good damage for one meter (700k), his zoning is very underated due to Repulsor blast having a follow-up, and he is IMO, one of the better anchors in the game.

CapAm: He may be extremely slow and his mix-ups are pretty bad, but his zoning is good. He covers all angles with shield slash and he does alot of damage.

Hulk: I thought this guy sucked, until some Hulk player blew me the fuck up with him. This guy may be one of the most underrated characters in the game. I didn’t want to put him B tier, because I knew you guys would think that Im trolling (don’t let the avatar fool you, Im not a troll on purpose). Hulk forces you to block everything OR ELSE. Outside the corner, he is a nuisance because gamma wave is quite fast and hitconfirmable into gamma tsunami. That isn’t his strong suit, but its surprisingly effective unless you are any of the Top 10. In the corner, this guy is a beast!!! He is one of the only characters to have frame traps in this game. Vert gamma charge, H follow up, from there you can grab, use st. m, which is a fast armor move that confirms into his BNB, do vert gamma charge with follow up of choice, or simply just go low with cr. l. Not to mention that he can do as much damage as any of these characters with 0 meters.

Shuma-Gorath: Lets face it, we haven’t seen a Shuma yet that wowed us (at least I haven’t). From what I saw, his damage is average and his health is not very good. You can easily change my mind about Shuma if you tell me something good, but now? Hell no.

4707

Magneto/Wesker/Phoenix is the best team imo. You don’t even really need Phoenix, but you can easily build the 5 meters you need for her, if you’re in control of the match and you can afford to use some meter then any time Magneto lands a hit he kills a character. Wesker assist sets up unblockables that Magneto can take advantage of probably more effectively than any other character. After a Wesker combo you can team super from anywhere and every hit of all 3 supers will connect (you don’t even need the gun OTG if Magneto is still alive so you can teleport behind them in the corner to get more damage out of the team super). And then when it all comes down to it, you still have Phoenix.

4708

No character nerfs. Nerfs sometimes can utterly destroy a character’s viability in the game.

Character buffs. Like Hsien Ko get major speed boost and slight damage boost. Talking about make her close to Chunner speed.

Only nerf that needs to happen is XF3. Shit is beyond broken. Lower the bonuses or the time and shit will be fine.

Also Thor with armored normals, would be OP. Considering they would give it to his H most likely and that is used in a kara throw. Imagine that shit.

Cap needs OTG option, invincibility on his Hyper Charging Star, Cartwheel invincibility, double jump and shield slash damage increase. Also make his Star and Stripes assist invincible.

Haggar needs his piledriver range and damage drastically increased as well all his throws damage and range increased. Make it where people cannot bounce out of his rapid fist as suggested.

Arthur, DRASTICALLY increase his damage output on projectiles and make them the strongest projectiles. Increase time on super armor and double his hyper bar gain.

Thor just needs speed increase and maybe some armor on his Spark H.

She Hulk, give her airdash. Just to make her even more of a pain in the ass.

But mainly just give people buffs.

And maybe nerf Logan’s divekick and make Dph health drain even in XF.

4709

Dante and Ammy are just as good if not better than Wesker.

4710

The Chris changes where inspired by the fact that it always bugged me that Dormammu’s flame carpet was a better defensive option than fire grenade. The gunshot was because it seems like Chris always needs some sort of “get off me” assist because he can’t defend the air above him very well.

If She-Hulk needed (and I’m pretty ambivalent one way or the other on this) better air mobility I would say an alternate solution would be to make her wall jump actually useful. That is, buff an existing and currently unused move.

4711

Fuck yeah, El Fuerte!

4712

It really confuses me why they gave both She-Hulk and Felicia off the wall jumps but then made those moves suck.

Ooh, here’s another Iron Man buff.
-Proton Cannon now holds people in place similar to Unibeam so that if the opponent is close enough you would, due to the first hit of the cannon itself raising up, be able to actually XFC Proton Cannon into itself.

4713

Cap does not need all opf that, an otg option maybe. Hyper Charging Star has a use and almost no supers have invincibility frames in this game. He only needs Cartwheel invuln or double jump not both.

4714

One weird thing: why is Spidey’s Web Swing a DP motion and Task’s just a regular attack?

4715

i agree with 80% of you’re list. just put jill at the bottom and move morrigan to c tier lol.

4716

i honestly don’t understand why capt doesn’t have this in the first place.

4717

Found it on Google’s cache of the page:

Current Renegade Power Rankings- Mostly based on point contributions, but factoring in assists and DHC abilities

A Tier
**1. Phoenix-**No floe, you can discount the reason you beat justin as “not the #1 character”
**2. Magneto-**I can’t block this guy for more than 5 seconds. Then he disruptas my Tron. So lame.
**3. Wesker-**Any where you put him, he’s the magic man.
**4. Dante-**Now can DHC trick off any combo easily, and can zone? Sheesh.Scary.
**5. Ammy-**with the importance of her hard sentinel counter lessened and without a one hit kill, she’s onlysuperfrightening now.

B+ Tier- The next best characters in the game

**6. Zero-**the biggest benefactor from DHC glitch mania.
**7. Wolverine-**85 seconds left and you’ve lost two characters… sound familiar?
**8. Storm-**Versatility is her game
**9. Trish-Got a DHC Trick! Whoo! Damage!
10.Taskmaster-**Still housing teams, and a great DHC ender character.
**11. Dormammu- **Best hard counter to PHX there is. Just summon that power.
**12. Sentinel-**Don’t forget about that Robot. The good ones stuck with him are rewarded.
13. Shulk- I wake up in cold sweats from nightmares about the She Hulk vortex. Ghost Ride the Whip!

Mid Tier(i.e. these characters are still good!)
**14. Doom-**Usually shouts at Reed Richards from the 3rd slot.
**15. Akuma-**Mostly just see his assist for wolverine, is there more to him?
**16. C.Viper-**New tech coming for her everyday. Will DHC glitch hold her back?
**17. Spider Man-**Getting much trickier in a role as a pixie character. Stronger rush down than any below him.
**18. Tron-**Why do people still get hit by jump H? I’ll take it!
**19. X-23-**Yawn. I’m tired of argueing about this characters potential only to see her get bodied all the time.
**20. Deadpool-**Needs AHVBx 3.
**21. Chun-**Having some of the lowest damage output in the game isn’t great when can’t do DHC trick.
**22. Spencer-**Random Arms aren’t working, guys.
**23. Felicia-**She needs to be able to morph into Sasquatch.

Lower Mid Tier(solid, but uninspiring so far)
24. Shuma- Why did they have to put that pose in after hypers. Only useful one is chaos dimension. Assist rules.
**25. Chris-**Solid zoning. Dormammu’s better at the same game.
**26. Morrigan-**slow rushdown, meh damage. Meter assist is useful, but Ammy has one too.
**27. Iron Man- **Awkward rushdown, limited air zoning, great beam assist.
**28. Jill-**If you like to push buttons, just play Dante.
**29. Haggar- **Every time I get hit by this character, I either facepalm or roll my eyes. True story.
**30. Ryu- **Have beam will shoot.
**31. Thor-**In theatres now!
**32. Skrull- **Justin’s is a great example of high level skrull play. I.e. the first time a skrull got that far.
**33. MODOK-**big, slow target.
**34. Hulk-**bigger, slow target.

LOW TIER(Probably better off picking someone else)
**35. Joe-**got seriously nerfed from the gamecube version.
**36. Arthur- **would be better if he had a game genie.
**37. CapAm-**taking a break after killing Osama.
**38. Hsien Ko-**I would have armor and XF level 3 on against regular characters and still lose. Sucks so bad.

4718

Can’t answer as to why it’s a command normal for Tasky, but they went out of their way to make sure anyone with a half circle back move did not have a quarter circle back. Using Tron as an example, I’d have rather had her command throw as a 360, and Bonne Strike as quarter circle. There really was no reason to go out of their way to avoid 360s like they did.

4719

Haggar needed to be more like Zangief lol.

Haggar Buffs

Air M- Bigger hitbox. You shouldn’t be able to duck under it and it should hit farther behind him
Pipe- Chip damage. Scrubs everywhere would cry foul and it would be kinda brain dead, but it’s already brain dead and he needs it vs runaway. At the very least, ground pipes should do chip
Violent Axe- It should negate projectiles during the active frames and have a bit more active frames
Hoodlum Launcher- Less startup on M/H and less recovery on L/H (H should recover quick enough to attack in the air)
PD- Grab range + damage increased. All versions should have 0 startup and maybe more active frames
Backdrop- Grab range + damage increased. All versions should have 0 startup. L version and M versions should have less recovery so you can mix up how long you float
[FONT=times new roman]Giant Haggar Press- Startup invincibility while jumping up or way less recovery with a bigger hitbox while falling. Minimum damage scaling of 50% on explosion[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman]Giant Swing- SA would be cool and give it a use outside of combos[/FONT]
Rapid Fire Fist- They should never pop out of your first RFF. If not that, then maybe some SA to make it worth doing outside of combos
[FONT=times new roman]Hyper Haggar Slam- It should do at least 600k damage or have more reach. This move is crap and wastes like 8 seconds of your X-Factor if you XFC to lvl3[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman]With those he’d be like top 10 maybe.[/FONT]

4720

Hyper Haggar Slam should be the most damaging move in the game, real talk.