MvC3 Actual Balance/Potential Tiers Discussion

Shuma gorath is worse then alot of characters. He is a great example of what was mentioned before. Very Techinicial character but for little reward. In fact he is so technicial that he cant even do a basic Mediocre dmg bnb without having good execution.

Here are shuma’s strength and weaknesses:

Advantages
[LIST]
[]One of the best assists in game. Mystic ray very unique in that is a delay full-screen beam
[
]Quite fast in x-factor mode
[]LvL3 gimmick . Its a good gimmick though. Can be used to end combos with damage or Cripple incoming character
[
]Normals are fairly safe and can be cancelled into other attacks. Decent range pokes.
[/LIST]
Disadvantages
[LIST]
[]Horrible Dmg without Meter
[
]Very Meter Dependent
[]Combos are high execution in fact no tourney shuma has finished his combos. He is also high execution or bust. Unlike viper who can atleast 50% most characters with basic bnbs
[
]Alot of His combos are Corner only.
[]Terrible approach (one of the worst)
[
]Slow, Bad Wave Dash, Poor Mobility in air. Will Find it hard to catch jumpers/flyers.
[]Mystic smash approach is predictible and provides weakness to throws, supers and cannot go through projectiles
[
]Very Easily zoned out. Cannot Zone worth shit due to charged projectiles. His projectiles are beaten out by most other projectiles.
[]His Assist is delayed Meaning it gives him the chance of being caught when he comes out.
[
]Health is Average
[/LIST]
Bottom or next to bottom tier. Most people just don’t know how to play against him.

I think what Iron Man really needs is better frame advantage on some of his normals that are commonly used for approaching. I’m always the first person to rage about how much time Wolverine, Wesker, and Magneto get to confirm into a combo, but I still feel sad looking at Iron Man. I tried running Iron Man for a while but had to drop him because I felt like you had to be psychic to actually confirm anything, and the problem with trying to be psychic with him is that he’s also incredibly unsafe, so make one wrong call and you die. In theory he’s good; decent health, ok zoning, good mobility, great damage (even if it does take a little execution to really maximize his damage); but in practice it’s way too difficult to consistently capitalize on anything. The threat of a random Proton Cannon will sometimes keep your opponent in check and give you a couple extra chances to try confirming into damage if you didn’t get anything the first time, but it doesn’t actually take out the guesswork involved in confirming into big damage.

I don’t really think wesker has a bad match against ammy, its just a different sort of match… If anything on a points scale they’d be 5, 5. I think they both sort of negate the herp a derp the other has. If anything its a bit better for wesker since he can one shot ammy with the right team…

Wolverine is the best character in the game (except for maybe phoenix) and here’s why: He has the best mix up with the right assist behind him (cr.L, j.L, cross up slash), he can turn on XF in the middle of a combo and kill anyone in the game, and if he guesses right when the next character comes in then they die too. But he has to get in to do that stuff, but he’s also quite good at that too with a fast wavedash, divekick and slash xx berserker charge.

And he says bub a lot which I like.

Come at me bros.

wtf happened to the last thread?!? unless its accidentally deleted, i hope it goes back up since there was nothing wrong with that thread unless the mods wants to be trolls.

wolverine is that damn good. people like to play theory fighter and say “x” and “y” have more potential than him and therefore is a better character than him. but at the end of the day, wolverine wins. as for the wolverine vs magneto match up, i like wolverine over magneto.

akuma is legit. his only drawback are stubby limbs (how ironic from his sf4 iterations), although they do have good priority and low stamina. by far the scariest x-factored character after dark phoenix.

people might know how to deal with tatsu spam but that move is still too fuckin good and i’m not even gonna get into the air version.

his offense is really good. dive kick might not be wolverine retarded or as good as trish but its still high priority. and he hits like a truck.

he has ghetto teleport mixups. not as good as wesker, zero or x-23 but still good enough to use.

probably the best thing about his mixup game is being able to chain into overhead and comboing the overhead into launcher. you can pin the opponent down with an assist and then go for high low mixups

he also have some ambiguous demon flip crossups like in ssf4. but of course none of that matters since 90% of the people that use him uses him primarily as an assist.

air beam super is easily the best fire and forget super in the game. god forbid you call out an assist or have below 40% health when hes x factored. ground fb super is safe to dhc in.

No. You’re thinking of a plain-ol’ ranking chart, which is empirical (and boring). Tier List discussion is theory. That tournament results (character ranking charts) and Tier Lists happen to coincide simply means there’s harmony in the community’s understanding of the game and the practical application of said understanding. Obviously, this takes time.

Would be practical for me if Jill and Shuma end up low tier.I havent downloaded them yet, I never play online and the LAN center I play at twice a week doesnt have them downloaded so I have no experience against them. Hopefully if they’re just not that good then I can steamroll them without having to know the matchup.Pretty bleak outlook but thats the reality for London players at the moment.

If tiers are based I’m potential then they are even more useless than they are rumored to be lol

I want to see a nerf for X-Factor level 3.

and I want to see assist buffs across the board- mostly to anti-air assists, but others too.

According to the top post my entire team is C-Tier :frowning:

That’s a pretty cynical outlook on a discussion that can actually teach you something. You can stick to the current fad of dissing tier discussions if you think that gives a poster his/her forum grizzle, but the fact of the matter is; tier discussions are only as fruitful as the community discussing them.

Yeah, there’s more trash in the last thread, but there’s clearly knowledgable mainstays such as DevilJin, et al making insightful posts. I think you’re insulting those people and the wisdom they impart.

I agree with OP’s tier list though I’d bump Haggar up a tier. He’s a very boring character on point but not awful.

Akuma is the scariest character for me and I’m a Phoenix main. Dormammu is a close second. As Dark Phoenix, I have to play very carefully against Akuma when we’re both anchors. Tatsu blows up her standard “Lolspamfeathers you lose” and god forbid they realize they can tatsu coming in off a character death when I’m trying to mix up trap them from a fresh character kill =). I ALWAYS burn meter to snap him in and kill him as even a relatively new player can get in with a Tatsu XFC3 => overhead combos against you. I keep hearing about this anti Tatsu tech and I’m watching vids like crazy for it but I really don’t see it =. If anything, I see even the pros spamming his Tatsu’s xD!

This. A thousand times this. Solve existing problems.

Small list of possible changes:
Chris:
-H. Grenade toss leaves larger and more long lasting fire puddle.
-Either Jump Machine Gun or Jump Shotgun fires forward as opposed to down forward.

Felicia:
-Hell Cat can now be done air and ground.
-Jump from Wall Cling now goes further.

Haggar:
-Air Pipe can destroy some projectiles.
-Air and ground piledrivers ground bounce but now scale combo by 75% instead of 70%

Hsien-Ko:
-Previously mentioned changes to normals to allow for combo extension.
-Knockback on activation of Rimoukon similar to Dark Phoenix transformation
-Henkyo Ki Gong starts up and recovers quicker

Morrigan:
-Vector Drain ground bounces

Ryu:
-Remove canceling restrictions on f.M

Viewtiful Joe:
-Faster walk and dash
-Make the character model larger :stuck_out_tongue: (IMO Joe has all the tools he needs but none of the range to use them)

Captain America:
-Shield Slash hits on the way back unless Cap is in a hard knockdown state
-Cartwheel faster startup and recovery

Iron Man:
-cr.H gets the fuck out of this game and is replaced by something that’s actually useful
-better horizontal range on launcher

Magneto:
-Slower startup on Light EM Disruptor

That’s all I can think of at the moment. Mostly buffs.

S: Phoenix/Ammy/Dante/Magneto/Zero
A+:Trish/Wesker/Taskmaster/Wolverine/Akuma
A-:Sentinel/Storm
B: She Hulk/X-23/Dorm/Doom/Viper/Deadpool/Spencer
C: The Rest
D:Hulk/Morrigan/Arthur

Yea, theory fighting is cool and all but what is currently working is more relevant, not what could work eventually.

lol tier lists ARE NOT based on potential. potential is however a “small” factor in there making.
results matter most.

-dime

Seeing all these nerf requests makes me sad. Gimped characters are not fun. Why not buff the fuck out of everyone instead of just saying nerf dante plz, i can’t beat him.

Seriously. Buff it to a gun war, don’t nerf it to a pillow fight.

Hsien Ko doesn’t want knockback on her armor super. If she’s going gold, she wants to be in your face mashing buttons. If you’re going to buff that hyper, give it invincible/faster startup or longer duration.

Never wanted to imply they were purely based on potential. Your idealized list may not be theoretical. You can pretend the discussion of said list isn’t theory fighting if you want to, if you feel the discussion somehow loses its legitimacy when correlated with that. My point is: if tier lists discussions were purely empirical, there’d be little to nothing to discuss. Just point to the results.

The thread title should be renamed: “Who’s the Best-est Marvel 3 Character/Team”, since none of its discussion has any bearing on a tier list.

Tier Lists shuffle as people’s understanding and application of said understanding increases. That’s why they’re volatile at the beginning and more concrete towards the end of a game’s competitive life. Theory dominates in the beginning. Empiricism wins in the end. Just like all things treated like a science.