I haven’t seen hardly any mix ups in Iron mans game play unless he’s in flight, hovers over the opponent while calling an assist. He does have potential, I just don’t think he has enough potential to be known as top tier. Right now I think he is low tier, but I do think he has the potential to become middle tier.
As for Chun Li, she isn’t that bad. She’s got an infinite, good mix ups, good pressure. She’s got potential but right now I think she is a middle tier character.
The character with the most potential is C. Viper or Dante.
I’d like Chun a lot more if her :d::l: hit low, and if she could easily combo off her throw or air-throw with an OTG assist. Those are two things holding her back I think.
Just to fan the flames of the Ironman debate and because I’m a shameless self promoter, you guys should check out my youtube channel. I’ve been uploading random snippets of the more practical combos he has:
And she can OTG off of her throw and air throw with an OTG assist…only off her back throw…and the nature of Chun’s game puts opponent’s in a corner so if you’re going for this, you’re throwing them out of the corner which sucks.
I love that Chun’s :d::l: is so gdlk in terms of range and speed. . . seriously it’s great. . . I just hate that it hits mid. Chun-Li would be monstrous if that thing hit low.
Her biggest flaws:
-Lack of Fast Lows. Her best is 6 frames which is slower than a good deal of the higher tiers lows.
-Getting in. She has literally no way to get in besides triple jump xx SBK mixups and Double Air Dash which is so easy to see coming and shut down
-Lacking the ability to self OTG. If she had self OTG, she’d be High Tier
-Solo damage. This goes hand and hand with self OTG. Basically her ability to convert random hits into damage usually off of any random requires hit xx Legs. Legs scales the damage horribly…seriously it’s like the damage scaling formula is specifically meant to fuck her over. he fact that most of her combos also have to use Legs near the end to connect something like a Kikosho also hurts (this is mostly for some specific SBK combos). They took away her TVC Level 3 which is something she desperately needs in this game if she wants to push high damage. Her only way to break 600k damage is with an assist or level 3…and her best solo level 3 setups require higher execution than most … and those only are going to net you the damage equivalent to what Magneto and Wesker get for being lazy.
That said she does have some good things going for her
-Legs is a GDLK answer to a lot of things. It cleanly beats most things in the game.
-Benefits more from Team Aerial Exchanges than anyone in the game. Her BnB has a built in TAE in it.
-Her Corner pressure is fantastic. Her BnBs will always corner carry too.
-Hypers do above average damage and have lots of invincibility…she’s great as a counter punish character.
I hardly think she’s bottom 5 or 10 like some are suggesting. She’s sitting pretty at middle tier and perhaps with some good resets and setups in the future, she could crack the bottom of high tier if we’re lucky.
My two cents on Wesker : i think he has a slightly bad matchup against She-Hulk, too.
Maybe 6:4 in her favor, as she has a quick, nearly game-ending answer (in the form of a grab) to every teleport, gun zoning runaway doesn’t affect her as much as some characters (or as much as it should adffect her), and her higher health means he’s forced to reset…they have to play similar games against each other, but she-hulk has anti air grabs.
Phoenix is an interesting animal, though. I have to say, even as a recent Phoenix-convert, that I think phighting Phoenix makes the game less phun. In fact that’s part of why I use her now. I figured I could either be the one being pissed off, or the one pissing people off. I think the concept, what she does to the game, the balance of the mechanic, and everything is BRILLIANT. The only negative side effect, which for a video game is a big deal, is the affect to phun phactor. Whether she’s beatable or not, I can’t imagine too many people enjoy chasing the bitch around the screen till time out, or playing amazingly only to lose the game 6 seconds later. Even when you beat her, it’s a pain in the ass to do so.
Anyway, I still love the game, and even love Phoenix (especially when I’m the one abusing her). But I think it’s hard to deny the games that involve her are phar less enjoyable, at least for whichever side ultimately loses.
Is it just me or are instant tiger knee DP motions pretty damn hard to do consistently in this game? I’ll look at input record and I’ll get two different results for the exact same input.
It’s slightly bad but Wesker can still get her. Our local scene has a She-Hulk player that can 100% at nearly all times and the first handful of times I played him I couldn’t win a match but once I got to understanding how to start the fight and what her weaknesses are, he had a work a lot harder to win. Wesker should already have a ranged assist so there is no reason to get caught by any of her c.L’s.
62369 can read at least 4 different ways off of very small timing differences, this is obvious when playing Viper. It’s quite easy to get ground 236 move, ground 623 move, air 623 move, air 236 move, super jump normal, normal jump normal, and a lot of other bloody things.
I think I actually 96323A that move to get a bit more height that I need. I mean, the looser the input window, the harder precise control gets. It just comes with the scrub game territory I guess.
I like her a lot, but I struggle to see where she fits in.
Legs assist really enables some other characters to do some strong mixups/pressure, so it seems like keeping her off point makes sense. Still, she needs assists to both get in AND extend her combos, so having her go first or second seems important.
And finally she’s hilarious on X-Factor level 3 so I don’t mind anchoring with her either, haha. It’s like you’re suddenly playing MVC2 Magneto and they’re playing… underwater.
Ultimately I feel like her pressure (the ability to actually get in and open someone up) is average or below, and her damage is average or below. Her priority is pretty good though - I’m starting to see that matter more and more, so I think there may be hope for her still.
The best I see Chun Li being is a terribly weak version of Wolverine. If she could OTG into any of her supers or anything for herself it wouldn’t be so bad and she would have a legit throw game but it’s pretty sad when throws are hugely important in this game and X23 for example has a completely better throw game by herself. She even has a command grab to set up with assists or on wake up. Pretty much everyone in the top tier has bullshit off throws or air throws and Wolverine is probably the only one that needs an assist to set BS off throws. Though Wolverine is so BS any way that it makes up.
At least air legs gives her a 7 frame move that protects her from throws herself while being able to land combos. On the other hand with all of the work you’ll have to do to get in a range to make her air dash or legs game scary you’ll probably have gotten beaten the hell up by any point character with zoning or a zoning assist. Her wave dash and air dash game just dont cut it for how weak her only projectile zoning tool (fireball) is. Her wave dash at the minimum should be just as fast as 23’s or at least as fast as Spider Man’s.
