Agreed, for me I consider how much “fun” I am having when trying to decide if it is good or not, weird I know. Not trying to argue how competitive it is or not because the game is still relatively new and I believe we need more time to make a solid judgement about it.
It’s different form MvC2, in that game, people talked shit about it because only like ten characters out of 54 were worth playing as/and or assist. In MvC3, the dislike alot of people have isn’t based on ‘teirs’, I have to admit, they did a good job trying to balance a game with this large a cast of characters while keeping the combo system so ‘open’. Most people’s quarrels have to do with (at least IMO) out playing someone for 99% of the match but losing because of that 1%…the random factor in this game is STRONG and it HURTS. The only saving grace is the lack of guard crushing someone when they come in…so the hardest comboes off a random attack will do 33% damage.
Sorry for derail, just don’t think it’s really ‘balance’ related.
and 
at Spencer “Random arms aren’t working guys” comment very true words…
- :bluu:
Bingo. This game is a fucking BLAST (unless you’re fighting against a Phoenix team). So funny how many people will play this game 5 hours a day 7 days a week and be like “game sucks.” MAGNETO IS VERY GOOD! Had to keep this on-topic.
Yeah random factor hurts… unless you’re a good player, in which case it really doesn’t. Maybe a lvl 3 Akuma hits a stray beam 1 in 10 games. but if your name is Justin Wong, you still win the other 9 every time.
The smart player should use the random factor to win, not bitch about it when he loses
Not sure hulk should be so low he’s a good counter char to akuma chuns viper ryu storm Dante trish and doom. Also I don’t think people are using his command grab very often. If you add an otg assist after the grab you get really solid damage. And the air grab has really good range. You can run a comand grab vortex kind of like she hulks with him. He has some really good matchups and some of the highest damage in the game in the corner. I think he secretly might be b+.
@renegade, nice list but i dont think you can go with exact number placements in this game, too much possibility for precise placement.
On IM, Like flash said, he has good tools and normals. The thing is he loses to SO much in this game that even with all that hes going to have a hard time against anyone with similar tools as him (mags, doom, hell modok)
appearently this threads about balance too… so I guess its balanced… kind of…
edit: Hulk’s standing H has a ridiculously deceiving hitbox, hes just so slow and easy to open up
These conversations have been AMAZING to read. Both for technical info and entertainment purposes.
I feel like Iron Man is a good character. Not a great one, but a good one. Definitely not top tier though. Or top 10. Wesker, Magneto, Sentinel, Phoenix, Taskmaster, Dante, Wolverine, Amaterasu, Dormammu, and Doom are better than him.
And we all know this game is fun. It’s so stupid I’m losing I.Q. points talking about it, but it’s still fun as shit. That’s the whole reason we play this though is because of how dumb and broken it is. If we wanted to play a smart game we’d be playing chess. It’s its own game and we love it for those reasons.
Omg. It’s ridiculous when you think you’re blocking only to find out he crossed you up. Not even that he crossed you up, just that you crossed HIM up and for some reason his arm reached that far around and hit you, and then you lose your character.
If there’s one character that I think is pretty terribad…it’s Chun Li. Being a player of mostly underrated characters in all my games I usually give more credit than normal but this bitch is just bad. I messed with her when I was using my Buktooth team when the game first came out and I’m doing PLENTY better killing one or 2 characters off with 23. X23 may not be the best character in the game but she’s vastly more versatile than Chun Li. She’s basically what Chun Li wishes she was minus the legs. Can OTG for herself, has all the same and more movement options for getting around the screen (best wave dash in the game as opposed to an ok one), one of the DHC glitch starters, dirt nap setups on the ground where you can only XF burn to maybe get out of and setups from the air where you’re just dead. Chun Li has air dash and legs. Like WTF Capcom.
Outside of legs there’s just nothing about her that no one else has. She’s like what would happen if all of Wolverine’s 2 move derpness somehow still made him bad. She’s derp but it’s not even scary derp. Definitely no less than in the 10 worst. She wont get any better unless other characters get toned down. She’s that bad. It’s almost laughable to see her at a number higher than 30 on a list.
I like Captain America over Chun Li. Literally. He has a DP that stops her air legs spam so he probably even beats her.
I’m just curious as to why he does well against Viper? We have a “good” hulk in our area and I usually blow him up with her. I’m not saying your wrong just interested.
I’m also curious as I think that Viper has an exceptionally easy match up against Hulk. She has defensive options that lead into a dead Hulk when he’s pressuring with strings that are safe against other characters, and he’s not particularly good at zoning her out either if Viper just knows how to control her height with BKFs and his position with seismic hammer.
Armor tends to work well vs viper. To tell you the truth No high level vipers in Chicago but it tends to be one of my easier matches online.
I always figured that Hulk has a bad match-up against pretty much every character in the game.
I talked about that a month ago right here on SRK and people ignored/dismissed it because they thought Wesker had no weaknesses (which is wrong)
I like him up there with taskmaster at least. He is just really really awkward to use, and in a game where you can play almost any of those other top 10 in 5 minute pick up mode, that doesn’t bode well for him.
For starters he has a guarenteed double 50/50 mixup without assists off SnapBack that works on Phoenix, I haven’t seen people using it with him yet. His mixup game is actually really strong with his tri jumps. His beam might not be as good as some others, but it’s like 5% worse, not a huge deal. His air H is one of the best air normals in the game, which is great in a game as airthrowy as this one. And on random hit it it always leads to huge damage. His proton cannon is very easy to dhc out of and relatively easy to dhc into. Flight is strong and can put very strong 50/50 mixups out of nowhere.
If the tier list is about the current level, where the game is at based on tournaments and streams, I think you are dead right 100%. it’s a shockingly accurate list. But I just think iron man has alot of future potential people aren’t seeing.
I’m glad everyone’s so cynical about Iron Man. Stay off his nuts. Please.
Iron Man is the C.Viper of Marvel 3, and in some months time, people are going to see that.
Dude, getting reverse OCV’d is a consideration for anyone, regardless of skill. It doesn’t just magically cease to be a problem once you become good.
Lol, sometimes the more random and stupid the X-factor player is, the better. Case in point, how scared are you when you’re playing some spastic random ass Wolverine with Retard Rage and level 3 X-factor on?
Getting randomed out 10% of the time is still way too high.
Yeah I’m more scared of a Wolverine that doesn’t know what they are doing than a Wolvie that does.
Are we talking MvC3 C.Viper? Because MvC3 Viper is going to end up miles beyond Iron Man. Iron Man is a decent character with a great assist, but at the end of the day everyone is just going to think of him as [media=youtube]x5-JVvCrGC8"[/media], and I seriously can’t see him breaking the Top 10.
I have to agree with people saying that Wesker isn’t “That” good due to matchups
Though he can soundly beat most of the cast his bad matchups are HORRIBLE… like Guile Bison or Zangeif vs Chun-Li SSF4 bad
Matchups that get Wesker killed pretty badly so far that I know
Wolverine
Ammy
Magneto
Zero to an extent
Phoenix
Full Blown Run Away Trish… good freakin luck with this one
Last time I checked those were all top 15 characters…
Wesker is like Abel or M.Bison in this game, His good matchups are REALLY in his favor but his bad matchups are… horrifically bad
I dunno, personally. I think of it like poker. A strong poker player would never expect to win every session. But be plus over time. of course Poker is 6-4-ish edge, where as we’re talkin 9-1. but I dont mind a game w/ a mechanic that might let a weaker player steal one now and then if he works hard and the strong player snoozes. And even if everything else in this paragraph is wrong (about 9-1 being ok in a competative environment), the game is still mad fun to play.
Of those characters I would say only Ammy really hurts him and that’s just because her super small hit box makes it difficult to zone her and he needs the gun to set up offense also. He can’t just press any buttons at Wolverine but hardly anyone can. Either way he has a quick low wave dash and a counter to deal with obvious dive kicks or drill claws and jump back d+H gun can at least keep him at bay for a bit. Wolverine probably does win but it’s hardly a blow out IMO.
Wesker can definitely give Magneto trouble since he has a fast ground based gun most that instantly stops tri jumps. He also has projectile counter to stop spam of disruptahs. Wesker IMO with an assist can easily go 5/5 with Magneto. Definitely a match that Magneto can’t just go in and do shit.
He might have legit problems against regular Phoenix but if worst comes to worst you can always just run the teleport game against the homing fireballs to burn them out and waste time on the clock. If you have to fight jab mashing Dark Phoenix you have a projectile counter at least to have a chance of stopping her and putting her in a death combo. I would assume you should be able to guard XFC into the projectile counter also.
This Guile I agree. People make a big deal about the game being friendly and allowing new people to auto pilot with stuff but it’s something we learned to deal with during SFIV. In the end we found that if you’re a good player you’ll still win and if you’re not or just dont care to be good enough at the game to beat them then you wont. One guy in my local tournament scene literally didn’t enter the tournament this week because he was that tired of fighting Phoenix but it’s not like she can’t be beaten at all and they can always change the game accordingly. It’s the most fun I’ve had playing any of the new age fighting games and I think it’s way more unique and interesting than SFIV.