Just listen if wolverine is doing his 5 lowkick in a row for a hitconfirm
just like a dog
Im glad wolverine is viable and ish in this game. Seems most vs games flagship characters like Ryu morrigan wolverine spidey and cap really suck.
Ouroboros, if you want to take the Dhalsim discussion to the MvC2 boards/PMs I would be happy to explain my thoughts on why theory fighter Dhalsim is incredibly busted, anyone aware of all his tools although unable to necessarily put him over Sentinel/IM definitely can put him over Mags/Cab
PK: Until Marvel 2 Wolverine did not suck, Spiderman was great in MSH v SF too.
Really wolverine was considered like, high tier good?
Spidey was great in MSH v SF? This is news to me, i used to semi play that game.
People drop combos with everybody so I dont see how this comparison makes sense, Dante has infinitely more tools and options than wolverine and doesn’t need assists. Assuming you dont drop the combo/take unnecessary risks, Dante should never lose to wolverine. Execution is just part of the risk you run, a character may thats godlike with near impossible execution is not worse than a simple to use mid tier character. People just need to shake their jitters on streams and spend more time in training mode
so your saying there needs to be a tier for casuals, and tier for pros, and a tier for robots?
Your tier list is good, would just like Sentinel at rank 7-8-9 cuz its one of the top anchor/assist.
Wolverine has ALWAYs been Top/ God tier. Only in Marvel 2 he is average.
Tier lists should assume the highest currently possible level of human play. In the case of execution characters that does mean putting the work in to be consistent with them.
Can everyone stop debating this now?
Tier lists always take into account top players’ level of execution. No top player has perfect execution so execution barriers have to be accounted for. Refer to Strider/Dhalsim/Sakura never being top in MvC2.
Hugh Mad.
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I understand everyone is going to drop combos with their character. But if you are trying to argue that great Wolverine and Wesker players are going to drop their combos just as frequently as great Dante and Viper characters then that is just absurd. This is exactly why execution should be taken into consideration especially since it can leave you vulnerable to a hard hitting punish afterwards. You drop a combo with Wesker? Well you have 700 billion health so you can probably take a beating. You drop a combo with Dante or Viper? Well your antique glass health won’t be able to withstand a solid punish if you are left in a vulnerable state after the executional error. Wesker players will not drop their combos nearly as much as well because Weskers execution is very very simple compared to other characters near the top.
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No im not saying for casuals and robots, if you read the sentence I did in fact mention high level. But if we are going to make a tier list based on the best possible play then will it look like.
S Tier:
SO and So’s Wesker
Marlin Pie’s Viper
etc.???
also S Tier:
Your random Wolverine scrub
W/ phoenix… if you block well and land a combo or two, you have the best possible character backing you up. She’s #1, easily.
I have zero at #6, i’m not exactly sleeping on him.
Come on, man. You have some silly opinions sometimes but this takes the cake. Akuma only “owns” Phoenix if she fucks up. If Jean is above akuma he can’t do jack shit since his Shinkuu angles down. It just means she can’t really just chuck out traps or grounded fireballs when he’s stocked, so what? He dies when she hits him too, you know. 2 Jean combos without meter kills akuma.
I have them at 6 and 7.
Haggar is best for anti side switch crossup or zero teleport/jump C spam. Wolverine can get under tron, sure, but that’s why you call tron and jump back or walk back. She forces wolverine to go low and then actually hit confirm (normally he doesn’t have to wait), or just blind beserker slash xx beserker charge. She also anti airs the dive kick for free and cancels out sentinel drones.
Haggar/Tron plus top tier character present a major pain in the ass for a zero/wolverine player.
I think it was the armoured spider man that was really good?
But yeah, wolverine was stupid busted in MSH. 1 button mash for 1 meter every super jump. Beserker charge=infinite. whoo.
I like sentinel at #11. Sentinel is pretty damn average by himself at the end of matches. sure, he does huge damage, but how in the hell is he going to hit anyone anymore without assist pressure? Combined that with the health nerf, many characters can 1 shot him with a level 3 without xfactor.
Sentinel is best in the 2nd position to bring in via DHC trick, and then kinda play zoning keepaway until he gets an opportunity to blow XF and kill an assist. Drones are pretty good, but the health nerf really means you have to protect him.
Yeah, I don’t really like debating robot tiers. Then you get people saying Dark Sakura was #1 in MvC2 because if you got 3 meters with the life lead, you win.
I mean, If you drop a combo with ANYONE its potentially fatal given the nature of the game. the thing is Higher execution characters generally have an easier time opening people up, giving them more opportunities to potentially not drop combos. You cant blame a good character for being hard to use, thats just not fair.
example: in BBCT Nu was by fay the best character, then went Carl racheal Arakune, Which are LIGHTYEARS ahead of the rest of the cast. The big 4 were up there because of their amazing toolset and possibilities and potential and they had been since day 1. the notion that Nu would have been worse if she were harder to play than Carl (hardest character to use) is absurd.
I see where your coming from and I understand but IMO if you cant make a tier list based off of the highest level of play simply because “highest level of play doesnt exist yet” then a tier list shouldnt exist yet. just sayin.
Carl was not top 4 since day 1 to my knowledge. I believe he was actually viewed as low tier at first, then his loop was found and he went up to #5 almost immediately.
I agree about Sentinel around #11 but he still has insane range + armor to hit people. While yes it isn’t easy if the other player is playing smart, it still isn’t impossible for Sentinel to land that touch. I still see people get touched by that cr. M even though the game has been out for a while now. His high/low flight game, although slow, can still catch people off guard sometimes.
So yea Sentinel isn’t the best anchor because his options for landing that first touch are pretty straight forward, however, it is still one of those things where it isn’t hopeless to land something. He isn’t a great #3 but by no means is he garbage.
Out of curiosity, which of those top five characters do you think have the most room for growth, and which are closest to their ceiling? And why?
If one player can do something absurd with a character, that is the rule not the exception. It’s so silly to hear shit like “Viper is C tier unless marlinPie players her, then she’s A+” A godlike player shows what a character is, it’s not the character’s fault everyone else who plays it is so much weaker.
Btw, is it known what team Daigo plays? I havent seen it mentioned anywhere, but if it’s known info would anyone mind sharing? A friend of mine thinks Phoenix and, while I agree he’ll play high tiers, my guess is Phx is way too risky for him. Watch he plays Ryu Akuma Chun lol
I can’t comment on BBCT since I don’t play BB, but this is MvC3. I wouldn’t say Dante or Viper have many better tools at opening you up than Wolverine, Wolverines left right game on the ground is pretty darn good. Same with Wesker, another low execution character (combo wise). He great teleport shenanigans to land something.
So I don’t agree on the higher execution characters have a lot more tools to open you up. While im not saying they aren’t better, it isn’t to the point where Dante/Viper are 2x easier to open you op than Wolverine/Wesker.
In BB this might be true but this is a different game.
Of course he’s not garbage, but when comparing him to XF3 fear factor of say Dark Phoenix, Wesker, or Magneto he becomes remarkably pedestrian.
I think Phoenix and Dante have the most ceiling. Phoenix is just because players will learn to block better, learn to take risks with meter and rush better. Dante is just execution ceiling, really.
Wesker and Magneto are about as good as they are going to get. Wesker’s combos and mixups are pretty straight forward. He’ll develop more parlor trick mixups and some people may get pretty good w/ his counters, but that’s it.
With Magneto? Where can you really go? A combo really can’t do more damage than the fierce loop. He’s got the DHC trick. He’s got the keepaway. People will develop more tricky mixups and more people will be able to do his advanced combos… but he’s pretty fleshed out even now.
Dante’s zoning game and frame trap game has infinite potential IMO.
Phoenix is just plain god tier stupid.
Exactly. The logic with some of the people here would think that Magneto’s C loops/flight dash abuse trick in MVC3 should lower his tier bracket because those techniques are too hard. I never seen a character become low tier if the rewards for his execution isn’t there.