Morrigan is really safe and fairly mobile and while her noteworthy assist is mediocre it’s functionally independent giving her a key role on teams that have use of it. I’m not saying she’s a top character, but I can easily buy Morrigan as an underplayed, solid mid tier. I’d almost go so far as to say the main reason she’s so unpopular is that she’s really boring moreso than her being bad, and either way popularity really can’t be used as a gauge for quality. If it could, Phoenix would not be in anyone’s top tier list.
Super Skrull right now is really looking like a bottom tier character to me which is still playable but still bottom tier. I had a very long thing typed up going over his shortcomings, but I’ll try to be more brief. The biggest issue he has is that he reacts horribly to not having momentum. What are Super Skrull’s options to get out of heavy pressure? They seem really limited compared to quite literally everyone else. Other basic questions haunt him. What are his safe blockstrings without assists? I see Super Skrull users talk about how much damage he can do on hit and how you can keep stuff safe with Sentinel drones or whatever, but that’s not practical. If going in there and going for that combo is going to be what makes your character good, you need safe blockstrings with in-built mix-up that can be hit confirmed into damage. Can Super Skrull do that at all? What is his mix-up for that matter? He only has two lows, the worst :l: low in the game with almost no range and a c.:h: that seems to have zero non-assist ways to keep safe after doing it. He seems to have no good instant overheads, and his only particularly special overhead option at all is a dive kick that is unsafe and has a big height restriction. People talk about his mobility being good sometimes, but it seems pretty bad to me. He has good ground speed, a very unsafe “teleport”, and a single directional air dash that goes at a really poor angle. There are certainly characters with worse mobility (Haggar would kill for Super-Skrull’s mobility), but given the pure number of 8-way airdashes, flight modes, and real teleports in this game, it’s hard to see Super-Skrull’s mobility as a strength rather than a weakness. These are really basic things that seem to be big weaknesses for Super Skrull. How is he not looking low tier from this alone? I could also go into how his basic gameplan seems to rely way too much on correct reads with big pain coming to Super Skrull on wrong reads, but that is in a way a part of lacking safe options.
If there’s an answer to that long list of what seem to be fundamental questions to Super Skrull’s basic worth, it still goes back to the nature of a tier list. There are 38 characters, and in order to “move up”, it necessarily means putting other characters down. Who is worse than Super Skrull? I personally think Ryu, Captain America, Jill, and Thor are worse, and while I think Arthur and Hsien-Ko are better than Super Skrull I think it’s close and a reasonable person could very easily disagree with that small difference. Who else really belongs down there? I find it hard to imagine a list of 10 characters here.
I do agree that it’s unfair if people write off characters just for being unpopular, but being unpopular also can’t be a free pass for “you have to give my character the benefit of the doubt since he’s underplayed”. At this point we know the basics of every character and know about how every playstyle works, and there have been good players using every character. If people are just dismissing a character for not being used that’s not reasonable, but at the same time, most of the characters who are coming up on low tier lists over and over again seem to have pretty good reasons for that, and arguing against such a position requires more than optimism in the future to be convincing.
Dante can start the DHC glitch with his Hysteric move (The one that grabs them from full-screen).
Okay so people seem to be getting annoyed with people saying [insert un-popular character here] is certain tier. How should we go about discussing them, cause I don’t find any top five character fun to play as, so I personally wouldn’t mind seeing some more talk about the mid-lower tier characters.
Yeah Dante has a lot of cheesy setups for DHC glitch that people dont know about. Japanese already figured out a glitch where you like just frame time a normal after one of his specials or something and that starts up the glitch also. This is also considering Dante has pretty much the most broke M and H normals in the game and can kill most characters easily as soon as he touches them.
Yeah I play X23 and yeah she can start the DHC glitch off a dime with an assist pop up (to help land Weapon X) character or using the new TAC trick that was mentioned in the other thread so she can do it without assist pop up.
Either way from experience I know Dante is just a better character than X23. I think she has a lot of tools that when put together will make her a force but…she doesn’t have half screen normals, 8 different projectiles, a bootleg XF he can activate with just one meter that gives him 3 hilariously good special moves including the best non super beam projectile in the game (if you get hit by one you’re forced to eat the other 2 for huge damage and it does ridic chip) and death touch combos. He’s basically Sentinel with a much smaller hit box and much better ground normals and way more versatility in general. The DHC glitch is such a moot point in all of it. The problem is Dante is RETARDED good. He has similar issues like Sentinel when people close in on him like being able to be frame trapped easily due to his slow normal start up but good luck getting close enough to do that. Especially if he has good assists protecting him.
I don’t know, granted I just started using her so that maybe why but in terms of damage output I feel lucky if a landed combo is enough to kill phoenix. She has to be one of the worst in damage output unless I’m missing stuff and if I am please help my morrigan grow
from my knowledge morrigan needs a shitload of meter to deal damage. it’s not just you, she just have shitty damage output. hell iirc her bnb with 1 bar breaks like 500k. like wtf is that?
It seems like Morrigan is designed around astral vision to make herself scary. Until people figure out more of a way to develop a strong high low game with her that’s pretty much the only time you have to be legit scared of her. I feel a lot of strong combos and gimmicks will come out of the use of it. Plus she can use it to follow up the DHC glitch and she can build meter while killing you also during it also. Basically giving her another astral vision afterwards.
lol yea. all of dante dhc glitch set ups should at least net you over a million ( depends on who you follow up with ). here are one of the mid screen set ups i like to use shout outs to call2arms
Dante is just better at everything than almost every other character in the game. IMO he is the one character in this game who absolutely does need nerfs, and lots of them.
X-23 can only build about 1.25 meters in a combo, so she needs a significant amount of a meter stocked before her combo starts if you want to truly one touch someone. Dante builds both the meters he needs AFTER starting the combo… X-23 is better at DHC glitch combos than characters like Storm because she can do it at the very end of her combo, where she has already potentially done 750k damage while Storm probably does only done maybe 400k, 500k. You also have guaranteed positioning off an X-23 DHC glitch, so you can practice two different followups (normal followup for most chars, meter building combo into super for high health chars) and then just don’t have to worry about anything else.
But is she better at it than Dante? No, because he builds the 2 meters and has probably done 800k before he DHCs out. Magneto? Ehh… he builds a lot more meter and literally everything he does can lead to a DHC glitch whereas X-23 can’t land one off a grounded throw.
that’s Crazy Dance… looks like normals but its some stupid fuckin autocombo thing you cancel out of his horizontal flame spiral running thingy. its a 1, maybe 2 frame window where you press S
It’s a one feame window and can be done from qcb A, qcb B and qcb C. Though it’s not that hard to do once you get the timing on it, i also use double tapping. Actually justin pulled it off in the infamous match vs floes phoenix team at powerup.
it isn’t even just that he can do everything, but he is simply the best at a lot of the things he can do
mixups on incoming characters - Dante is best. there are no ways out of acid rain xx devil trigger
zoning game - Dante + Drones controls the entire screen. Air Play is practically unpunishable. Missiles track perfectly in a 360 degree radius… imagine my surprise when I anticipated missiles, teleported behind Dante, and then got hit by missiles. He can effortlessly transition to his crazy square jump/tele stuff any time he wants (unlike mags)
mixups - OS dash OS jump OS air dash… with normals that can cross up… with a sword
normals - he has a poke that covers the entire zoomed in screen and starts ToD combos. that is also safe on block. oh, and whiff too.
invincible moves - in a game where most chars don’t have any, he has one that he can do from the air, is +20 on block and starts ToD combos. he has another one that is an air to air, very fast, and starts ToD combos
and then you know… devil trigger regens health, very good DHC chemistry, great assists (jam session is good but weasel shot is godlike) etc.
lol @ dante needing nerfs. no, the problem is that characters need buffs. this is marvel not ssf4. everyone is supposed to be stupidly cracked out. magneto is cracked out, dante is cracked out, wesker is cracked out, etc. if the other characters don’t feel retarded thats because capcom fucked up on designing them.
I disagree with this statement. He really not the best at anything he does,(besides his normals perhaps) but he does every just good enough. And when you combine him having the options to do everything well you have a very strong character.
almost everyone already is good, even chars who aren’t top tier.
wesker imo is perfect. I can deal with him as is, hell I hope they change nothing about him… ever. Magneto… kinda sorta but an airborne horizontal beam as fast as his is pretty ridiculous. Amaterasu’s air throw just needs tweaked and that’s about it for her too.
Dante is just too much. Just wait… the American scene is too fucking lazy to put the time into him, which is too bad, because people still don’t know what he can do. He is broken even by MvC3 standards. Just wait.