I think what also contributes to this is that the number of characters who’re genuinely able to abuse level 1/2 X-factor can probably be counted on one hand. I also feel like when I’m playing or watching others play that using X-factor to simply to save a character is usually a mistake. This is because level 3 X-factor is almost always a more valuable asset to have than whatever character would have been saved by popping X-factor prematurely.
Agreed and generally I’d lean towards being stubborn. I think as more Phoenix (not Dark Phoenix) technology emerges she’s only going to get better. You’re already seeing far fewer people successfully running away from her.
I’m VERY interested in knowing what Dante can do well against a Phoenix. Because it’s been my experience that instead of getting completely zoned out he only gets halfway zoned out. Dante is one of the many characters who have no answer for superjump>TK Shots, teleport. As soon as Phoenix superjumps and shoots an :h:TK Shot, there’s nothing Dante can do except run. Dante’s great on the ground. But in the air, he’s completely outclassed by Jean. Best he can do is match one projectile with air :qcf:+:m:
Dante’s teleport is good but it only goes one spot everytime and the moves that he come out with (his normals, :s:, Hammer, Bee, and :qcf:+:m:) are too slow to not get air thrown out of.
And unlike a Ryu or Magneto or even a Trish, Dante doesn’t have that Random Hyper element to him that can kill Jean unless we’re talking XFC, Level3.
Maybe Devil Trigger is what would save him against Phoenix?
This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:
Phoenix has nothing to fear from Dante once she hits the air.
Deviltrigger’s Psycho Crusher goes through fireballs. If Phoenix does superjump fireball Dante can superjump Psycho Crusher or Teleport Psycho Crusher and get a full combo off it. It basically serves as a repeatable Hard Drive in this matchup. It’s also completely safe in most situations and the situations it’s not safe in Phoenix has to use meter to punish. He can also tiger knee it if she’s on the ground and it’ll blow through anything she does. He also has actual 50/50s that don’t lose to upback airdash after a snapback and if he lands any random air-to-air he can kill her. Missiles and Jam Session are useful as well.
The vast majority of the cast can do none of these things.
You can also dash under her and do an acid rain if you think you have enough time. Missiles xx Devil Trigger can shield you while you do it. Dante can combo off this as well.
I’ll be honest I kept thinking Phoenix will get exposed sooner or later, being stubborn as a mule about it because I’ve beaten some dial-a-combo scrub phoenixs online via lame out… but no I really don’t see the exposing anymore.
like previously mentioned, superjump tk shot lol teleport. Just like swordsman said so many characters have no answer for it.
People say Haggar requires no execution, but I consider getting in part of execution. its a mission getting in and pushblock completely shafts him.
I’ve learned the hard way using xf to save a character isn’t worth it unless we’re talking you have three guys and youre lookin to finish those last ticks on the clock
Missiles vs TK Shots = missiles get blown up before they ever reach Jean. And while they’re getting blown up, another TK Shot is already getting sent.
Jam Session is ok but not anything to really fear. She can bounce out and continue her air madness if she gets hit.
Thor does surprisingly better than Dante vs Jean because of his air mobilty, the invincibility frames of his mighty strike (which combos into Thornado or a jab Mighty Spark), his air Mighty Sparks bust through air TK Shots, and his Mighty Thunder really runs her through. If Jean superjumps and starts the air stuff, a whiffed air :s:, triangle dash into Mighty Thunder is boss and you don’t have to worry about the immense startup because the opponent won’t see it while they’re in the superjump screen.
This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:
Yeah, I figured it must’ve been his DT shit that helps him.
Actually she has to fear Jam Session. If she gets caught one time, that’s X-factor infinite if the Dante player knows what he’s doing.
I brought my Phoenix back this weekend and I did alright with her but fought against Dormammu and I got beat clean, even though I had lv3 Xfactor, he had Xfactor balls as my 2nd died so I jumped into a ton of block damage before I could Xfactor and negate the chip.
Jam Session xx Devil Trigger xx Legion Arrows xx Rekkoha = dead Phoenix
He can also use Twister to destroy TK Shots and cover both sides of him if he suspects a teleport, then cancel into Tempest, launch, short combo into dead Phoenix. I’d say he’s better off than most, but, like everyone else, should try to avoid having to fight a Dark Phoenix with level 3 X-Factor.
I still think the 2 best anti Phoenix characters are Akuma and Dormammu. Even level 3 XF D.Phoenix has to actually respect them on the screen especially if they have XF3 ready also. It’s pretty self explanatory why Dorm messes with Phoenix in general but Akuma is a real liability for any version of Phoenix so that’s why I made the switch from Dr.Doom to Akuma in the back. Losing 200k health for a character that has way more options for dealing with Phoenix is worth the trade especially when he has a very solid on point game against a lot of the cast any way. In the back it really doesn’t matter how much health you have because unless XF’s got burned out somehow you’re dying in one combo any way.
Akuma has NO PROBLEM fighting regular Phoenix head to head. If one or 2 of your characters are down and Phoenix is coming out I got no problem getting Akuma out there. Akuma doesn’t give a crap about any of Phoenix’s shit. Oh you wanna air or super jump air fireball? Jump or super jump tatsu into air fireball super. She can be in the process of throwing a second fireball on the screen from super jump height and super jump up M or H tatsu will blow up both projectiles and then hit her so you can combo into super. Her fireballs have strong durability but Akuma tatsu eats them for breakfast. She wants to lay traps when Akuma is coming in from a KO? Come in on screen with air tatsu and blow that shit up cuz it’s a projectile also. You see her do any special move on the ground or any in the air that isn’t started wtih a super jump? Just do beam super. It takes her at least 30 to 40 frames to start up and recover from all of her specials and beam super is out on frame 1 after 20 frames of pre start up. Phoenix can’t safely teleport around the screen without projectiles and Akuma easily tells her to lay off the spam. The best part is EVEN if she successfully teleports as long as you catch her starting it you can just do a ground M tatsu and even if she teleports behind you she still teleports close enough to you where your tatsu will auto correct and then you can launch her into a combo while she’s flying backwards into you during the tatsu.
Of course when you eventually have to fight Dark Phoenix that’s a whole nother beast but Akuma can at least force her to not press buttons for 2 seconds if it’s a one on one situation. Her traps in D.Phoenix mode are a lot harder to stuff with tatsu but you still should have beam super stocked to blow those up. If she wants to do random firebird super, Akuma’s shoryu super has more invincibility and will pass through it sometimes even if she activates second. Air tatsu still keeps the air fireballs in check and she pretty much has to cancel any special move on whiff into bird super or risk dying. Of course she can safely spam around projectile normals once she gets in but you can sit on meter and make it hard for her to approach.
Especially if you can figure a way to lame out the XF for Dark Phoenix she’s very fightable with Akuma. If you can force D.Phoenix to fight without her having any meter you can easily pull a near surefire win since she can’t cancel anything on whiff into firebird super. Akuma can chip her down easily with meter coming in especially if she’s coming in from the corner with air fireball super, M tatsu, beam super, XFC beam super dead Phoenix. If she doesn’t have 5 meters and she’s coming in from the corner she should pretty much be gone. If you have a lockdown assist that can probably help to seal the deal from mid screen also.
Now that’s what i have been telling people snap is useless half the time fight Phoenix and Dark Phoenix if you have to that because of sent and Phoenix at the beginning of the game i main Task Dorm Akuma 2 Phoenix and sentinal destroyer, task actually blow up sentinel. Snap is only useful if you can trap her but i will only try it once.
the thing people forget is that fighting D.phoenix she forces you in a 50/50 situation with meter certain character blow her up but she shut down half the casts. character like Skrull, Dorm, Akuma Cap America on ground, Amaterasu, Arthur maybe, Magneto, Hulk possibly all this character with meter both player xfactor lv 3 is 50/50 who make the first mistake dies.
It actually depends on who the opponents anchor is. If i foght a team of let’s say mags, wesker, and either akuma/ryu/dorm, i will definetely not use my xf early, because i will get chipped to death by these characters xf lvl 3 supers if i don’t have xf myself to avoid it. If i fight a team of mags, wesker, tron, and i already managed to take out mags and successfully get a hit on wesker, i WILL definetely burn my xf to kill him in one combo. Just because the character + tron assist is so much more of a pain in the ass than an xf lvl 3 tron on her own. Same with haggar.
But yeah, i won’t do it just to save a character in most cases…
in terms of x factor u have to judge wisely if you can force you opponent to activate x factor, let a character die to have a more powerful xfactor, have a good anchor, save a character etc
Completely forgot about the Jam Session/X-Factor infinite. Had no idea about Jam Session>DT>DHC>Up arrows. That’s pretty brilliant. Obviously I’ve never gotten hit by it but I can see myself getting hit by it.
Depends. Catching her is very situational because she can block on the 0 frame of DPH activation. So you can block/teleport/attack/switch when you’re on the ground out of it.
DHC into X-23’s Dirt Nap on DPh Activation = death if you’re anywhere near Phoenix.
There are a number of situations that rape Jean on DPh activation and on snapback. 2 straight X-factored Hail Storm’s on a DPH activation that happens in the air. 2/3 X-Factored Stalking Flares on snapback/DPh activation in the air/the jump-in after you kill another character.
A Ryu with meter is the scariest damn thing as a Phoenix player. He can hit you, on reaction, from anywhere on the screen and you’ll be dead.
This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:
Sadly there are too many people out there not willing to actually THINK their way through a Phoenix matchup and far too willing to cry like little bitches and hope for a patch and look for an easy fix. (BTW… I highly doubt Phoenix gets patched in any capacity. People need to understand she’s actually pretty balanced. It’s your skills that need to be patched).
Honestly kids… is it really that hard to not try to kill everything you see?
I’ve certainly had my share of salt towards Phoenix, but I’m starting to realize that seh is a brilliantly designed character. She forces both players to have long term goals and fight for the pace of the match. She may still be way too powerful, but the intentions were awesome. You literally have to snap back with every combo, even they tag her back out. The Phoenix player is just going to run away and give you free hits with raw tags sinse they can’t DHC, and with a litlle luck she will be forced to go dark with all three characters left, but halfway dead. keep snapping until she has to use lvl 1 x factor and then you win.
I know it’s not that easy but alot of people are like “I’ll snap her in once and then give up”, and they’re just giving it away.
Also, regarding lvl3 x factor, as people learn to block I think and hope it will become more viable to use other levels. It boils down to whether people would rather have one super powerful character, or two or three regular ones. Good players will pick multiple characters. How often do you seen ratio 4 in CvS2? We just have to figure out how to block in this damn game.
Can you tier all the characters based on execution / gameplan ?
I want to see what are in your opinion the ranking from the easiest character to use to the hardest.
Even though you agree on most of my list, it’s still nice to see why you think X belongs here and so on.
To make it simple : care to elaborate for each character ?
