yeah… but you never said what normals gave him that high priority aspect…
jumping fierce… is meh (imho) it isnt so highly spammable and generally only occupies the top half of the screen unless doing it on its way down. the downward version has less range but hits more important areas of the field… still slow though if trying to use it like a neutral jump spam move. flight canceling it i havent seen to be uber effective, atleast in my own gameplay.
i think i like most people simply dont know what IM is about. if hes a priority god, its needed to get that established so that we can start to mold him like that.
i didn’t exactly mean “talk about the WORST characters” i just meant hey lets talk about some of them mid characters
and lol @ i dont like talking about that because people dont know anything, people dont know anything about anything - this is a tiers discussion thread
yeah that move is godlike in priority i guess as i dont ever really get it stuffed… (situationally getting fucked fucked over by using it in stupid ways notwithstanding) but i never really considered it “high priority” in a way that could limit my opponents options. probably cause i wasnt thinking about spacing and just thinking of it as a block beater (hits high)
deviljin, how is felicia’s command grab better than wesker’s? ain’t her command grab like 5 frame start up? and for wesker needing to be within throw range, that is only true for H mustang kick ( even though you can kara it ). but with the combo burnsilver just posted recently you shouldn’t even be using any other version of wesker’s mustang kick other than L version. since you can cancel the the kick animation by dashing and go straight to a 400k+ combo that leads to mixups or level 3 hyper. and we all know wesker’s L mustang have dumb good range on it.
Yeah if you kara Wesker’s L command grab you can add to its range a bit but Felicia’s 5 frame grab is still definitely better in range without using a kara. Wesker’s is 1 frame but when you’re talking what people can react to one and 5 frames doesn’t really matter. Wesker’s command grab being 1 frame only really matters in the sense that you can pretty much ensure you’ll grab someone out of pre jump frames. That’s really the only reason Felicia has a 1 frame H command grab is just if you ever get that close and want to land command grab you have that extra set of frames ensuring someone doing a desperation jump wont be able to get up in the air. It’s not like there’s anything that’s negative one on block that you can reliably punish with it.
When it comes down to the bottom line it’s really just range. Felicia can frame trap so well that being able to reaction jump out of her command grab is just not feasible. You can’t even react to something that only has 5 frames of start up any way. There’s no reason to use H command grab with Felicia for the 1 frame when the L is only 4 frames slower and has more range than Wesker’s. Sure with Wesker you can just cancel your wave dash once you get in but Felicia can cancel her wave dash from a significantly further range and still get grab. Wesker has to kara his L grab to even get close to her L grab range. Her H command grab is maybe the same or slightly worst than regular throw range so it’s not really necessary to push faster frames. Super Skrull’s command grab if you’re really on your shit you can reaction get away from but that’s about it.
Once Felicia players get strong with their block string and frame trap game you wont be able to move once she gets in. People are going to be holding up so they dont get command grabbed and just get air thrown or counter hit out of their attempt to air throw. If she has kitty helper on then you got more problems with a move that hits overhead and crosses up while she’s hitting you low. If you hate people that block she has all the tools to open people up once she gets in.
A lot of Iron Man’s Aerial moves (M/H/S) burst out energy that doesn’t extend his own limbs. So yeah, Iron Man’s aerial dash game is similar to Vega’s claw. Aerial M is his best move because it comes out fast, and it’s got to range long enough to control space. It’s part of Iron Man’s strongest ability to tri jump. He can use it to get closer to Dormmie, and space it aganist Akuma’s Tatsu .
It’s part of the reasons why I can’t see how Iron Man is bottom tier because he has a normal move that he can abuse more than Haggar can use his pipe.
Try his cr.M. It has even better range and connects to his launcher.
Afaik you can’t throw people out of prejump or landing frames in MvC3. Set the dummy to jump in practice mode and try to throw him.
The fact that Wesker’s command throw is 1 frame and has good range means he can punish alot of stuff no one else can (i.e. Wolvie’s divekick). That blows away any 5 frame throw in the game.
Ah I didn’t know that about the pre jump frames. I remember in SFIV being able to grab people out of the pre jump frames unless I was mistaken.
On the note of the 1 frame command grab thing…eh I’m not sure if that’s a BIG deal. Like…when people learn to chicken block Wolverine’s dive kick there will be more opportunities to punish it from every character not just Wesker sitting on the ground blocking. Technically Wolverine’s dive kick can be plenty more than negative one on block but people aren’t using things like chicken (jump backwards last second at a close range) blocking to force the dive into early recovery. It’s not like there’s many moves in the game that leave you between 1 and 5 frames on block AND close enough to land a grab. For the few things there are an opponent would surely account for it and just use the moves differently or not at all.
Like Wolverine when he dive kicks lands into the range of Felicia’s one frame command grab after a chicken block. Even with Wesker’s 1 frame grab it’s hard to punish all the time if you just stand there and block his dive. You need to force the dive to recover earlier with a chicken block to get it consistent.
I don’t think you’ve been able to throw people out of prejump frames since SF2. That’s what made tick throws so damn good back then; the only way to get out of them was either to counter throw and win the coinflip if you threw at the same time, or attempt a reversal if your character had an invincible move. I guess too many people thought it was bs so Capcom changed it.
In most games, you can however throw landing frames, just not in MvC3 for some silly reason.
About the 1 frame command throws, you’re right that probably not many opportunities present themselves, but it does make blowing through blockstrings with X-factor alot more effective. I use that alot with Thor to good effect except I don’t think his H mighty hurrican has quite the range of any of Wesker’s command throws.
pre-jump frames are unthrowable in sf4. and mvc3 as well.
in sf4 its the reason why ibukis throw ultra can be jumped on reaction whereas giefs cant:
ibukis is 1+1=2 frames total
giefs is 1+0 =1 frame total
against gief you will never get into pre-jump if you werent already there.
against ibuki if you hold up she will try to grab you on your first pre-jump frame which is unthrowable which is why she wiffs.
I would LOVE to hear a tier list relating to execution barrier. I’d imagine something like Mags, Dante and Viper along with MODOK being at the top, with characters like Dorm and Arthur being near the bottom. Characters like Tron, Cap, and Skrull along with Task near the middle. How are the execution tiers of this game?
:h:Mighty Hurricane has the worst range of all of his throws. :l:Hurricane has GREAT range especially in the air. It grabs people slighty above, below, and BEHIND Thor in the air. And of course you can combo for big damage off of it.
This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:
Which is why I’m kinda puzzled as to why DevilJin said Felicia has the best command grab in the game. But I don’t know jack about Felicia so I’m VERY willing to listen.
No kidding dude, I suggested using the H version when you X-factor through a block string because it’s the fastest. If you think you won’t be in range feel free to use one of the other 2 and take your chances getting stuffed.
It’s mainly due to the speed of her wave dash + the range of the L grab. Nobody can wave dash as fast as she can and has a grab with that much range at only 5 frame start up. Thor’s command grab probably does have a bit of an edge over Felicia’s especially with the ability to use it in the air or the ground but I think overall Felicia’s ability to block string and stay in on advance guard easily makes her’s the scariest.
3 frame