MvC3 Actual Balance/Potential Tiers Discussion

People like to ride on hidden missiles because in some ways it acts as a stronger sentinel force but it has a couple issues. The biggest one being that just like sentinel force he stays vulnerable for almost the entire time you see him on the screen. Like you must protect that assist ridiculously well or u risk losing it to anyone that isn’t afraid of it and knows how to get around it. Like Zero with 3 meters can just sit on level 3 and if he sees hidden missiles come out on screen just throw out level 3 and if the person tried to throw a projectile during that they get hit for decent damage and Doom dies easy because there’s like a bajillion frames where he is hittable unlike a short amount with the normal assists. The more people devise tools to get around it and punish the laggy hittable recovery the less you’ll see it be this dominating lame force.

The other issue is that some characters like Tron have projectile invincible frames on their air H which pretty much render it useless unless once she gets in. Once she gets in it cant be called or her air H will eat up the missiles as she comes down and hit both Doom and the point character for big damage. Even if a couple of the missiles get away she can stop the combo…wait for the rest of the missiles to come down and then swat the rest of the missiles away while putting the point character in another possible combo situation.

Plasma Beam overall has the best utility since it uses his M version which has 8 frames of low durability. Meaning it’ll beat Sent beam, unibeam, easily beat Magneto’s disruptah cuz that has like very little durability (its only faster than doom beam not more durable) etc. This also works as basically a full screen block string that can be used with characters that can get behind people in an instant like Wesker and Zero to create safe 50/50 cross ups into big damage. It works like Chun Li assist for blowing up advance guard and letting people get in and also lifts people up after OTG’s for more damage. He also doesn’t stay out there for a year like missiles.

I use Plasma Beam on my Zero / Iron Man / Doom team for a few reasons:

  1. It works with Zero’s OTG extended combos (Molecular Shield does too though)
  2. It beats almost every projectile in the game clean (including an opposing Molecular Shield assist)
  3. The number of hits combined with the speed it travels across the screen and the pushback when it’s blocked; I run a crossup trick with Zero where I call Doom assist, jump and do :m: command dash to where I’m just above the opponent’s head, and do a Sentsuizan (dive) right above them at about the same time the Plasma Beam connects. The Sentsuizan on its own is pretty ambiguous, and when you add the plasma beam it makes it almost impossible to tell which way to block every hit, and if even a single hit connects it goes into full combo.

And as far as less devastating hypers than Magneto - Sphere Flame has already been mentioned, but Doom’s Time actually does even more damage than Gravity Squeeze, it just isn’t as dirt-easy to connect and doesn’t OTG so you need to be a little more creative with it. Aerial Photon Array also has beautiful DHC synergy with just about every character in the entire game, whereas Magnetic Shockwave and Magnetic Tempest can both put you in difficult positions to DHC from if you’re not in the corner.

Over at the at the Zero forums, we discuss a lot on which characters fit well with Zero a lot, and we mostly agree Doom’s Plasma Beam to be the overall best assist for Zero. It is very versatile assist and can be used in a lot of ways, especially for people rushing down and that have ways to combo out of it on hit on the ground.

Plasma beam is real nice. It has great durability, has reasonable startup, and Doom isn’t very punishable. Magneto disruptor has a little worse but still good durability, faster startup, faster beam speed, and less punishability. To me, it seems like kind of a wash for most purposes. So while I like Doom beam, I like Magneto beam more simply because it comes with Magneto instead of Doom.

Interesting note is that Iron Man’s Unibeam assist doesn’t knock down unlike the rest of the beam assists so you can easily combo after it randomly hits, which is much harder with the other beams. It does hit 8 times though, hurting damage and hitstun scaling somewhat. Also it spawns on top of your point unfortunately, rather than behind him.

True. I only use Doom assist because Doom has way better synergy with Zero than Iron-Man, and I used Doom in MVC2. Also one thing to note is that hits on assists can be very deceiving when it comes to hitstun scaling. I’ve tested Ammy Cold Star assist VS Iron-Man assist, and you can actually do longer combos with IM’s even do they are the same hits.

Blasphemy! Clock’s gonna foot dive your face! =p

I went the same route, starting with rocks assist & She-hulk and then moving onto plasma beam. Honestly though I still think hidden missiles have good potential.

Obviously it does suffer from being vulnerable longer than the other two, but if you have another character like Sent to help She-hulk get in, you can generate some good pressure with those missiles and even get a bit more freedom with some crazy runner’s start set ups. Since the missiles hit while going up it helps keep them pinned in the corner after they reset off the Torpedo if they try to jump/double jump out. And if you’re locking down and call it out you’d be surprised how many people fall for a Heavy Strike while they brace for the missiles. I think this assist still has good use with She-hulk.

I also find She-hulk’s Torpedo assist works really well with Doom’s since you can create a decent unblockable with the foot dive, air dash into M, and then go into BnB. I think She-hulk & Doom definitely have great natural synergy, at least more so than Magneto. Emerald Cannon into Sphere Flame also works good and does pretty huge damage. Not to mention you have enough time to call She-hulk back in and go for an air throw while they recover from it.

As far as a poor Magneto goes, I think time will tell once people really put in some work with the new Doom. I definitely know which one I’m more afraid of during XF3.

I’m pretty sure Foot Dive doesn’t hit high, so if they’re are crouch blocking your unblockable is blockable?

Nvm, just noticed the air dash M there.

On this subject and to avoid a completely useless post: I’ve noticed this as well. Chun’s legs deteriorates damage and hitstun by a lot. More than I’d expect from 10 hits of a different source. This is of course just my personal experience…didn’t actually test stuff out.

I can see Shuma’s Mystic Ray to take over for Doom’s Missile assist. Both are great for screen control, but Shuma’s is a bit harderto dodge since it hits the entire side opposite his eye (and since he usually comes behind your character, it’s full screen).

Not sure how good Shuma is on point though. Only day 2 with her, so I’m sure not everything’s been found.

I have a feeling it’s gonna take a ridiculously long time to figure out where MODOK would sit in a tier list.

I’ve been using a team of Haggar/Arthur/Felicia to devastating effect. I certainly see problems with these characters, but I guess it just comes down to how comfortable you are working with them. It also might be about team synergy - but even then, I think these characters are amazing if used effectively even without assists. Hell, I played a few KOF-style “Don’t Tag Out/Assist” matches with folks who are well versed in the art of fighting and took out entire teams with just my Haggar.

Not to say the folks I played with or I am EVO-caliber, but still - I think y’all are being too quick to judge. I’m personally finding Wesker to be the scariest character in the game, but I’m sure that eventually we’ll figure out some tricks against him. Conversely, you can’t get me to use Jill of my own free will, but maybe in a few years she’ll have something that makes her a legitimate threat.

He’s pretty bizarre, it’s hard to even come up with good teams for him. But I have a feeling he’ll be on the lower end of things.

Agreed with most of your post, especially since everyone seems to be evaluating each character on point. Not every member of your team needs to be a solid point character without assists or anything. Although you did forget to rate Tron.

I do think you’re overrating Doom’s Hidden Missiles though. As soon as you hear him shout (which is hard to miss, he says it loudly), you can fire off any projectile super immediately and wreck him. Doing this twice will likely kill him. It’s one of the most vulnerable assists in the game. To top it off, it’s actually possible to avoid them when you’re comboing if you’re moving forward fast enough. I bet we’ll see a lot of good players do this, and to some extent we already have. When blocking, it’s just like any other assist that pins down, like Chun’s Hyakuretsu Kyaku or Akuma’s Tatsu. I don’t think it’s really all that good unless you have a team built around being able to cover it.

(P.S. - Love your casting)

Edit: I’ll also add that I don’t know why people think Wolv is gonna move down a lot. Sure, he seems fairly straightforward at a glance, but he has a LOT of tech on his plate. Instant overheads that he can combo without an assist (jL – jS – drill claw – dive kick – relaunch combo), berserker slash as a nice crossup and projectile counter that you can cancel into berserker charge to make it safe or get a whole combo, a great dive kick for getting in, great range normals, an OTG that can easily play off of assists, and healthy damage that can easily turn into 1-combo kills if you’re willing to blow 3 bars. He’s got pretty much everything a point/rushdown character could ever want, and it’s going to take a lot of tech from some other rushdown chars to break even. The only thing he’s missing is a decent assist, and tbh I haven’t looked into his assists hard enough to be confident that his are bad.

I have to completely disagree there…

This isn’t a tier list or even an attempt at a tier list, this is a list catagorizing the characters in to fields which represent their abilities and popularity in attempt to get my thoughts down on to paper, based solely on my opinion…

(Not taking Captain America’s infinite into account)

Characters who I think are (for sure) going to run things:

Wolverine, Dante

Characters who I think are really, really strong:

Storm, Magneto, Tron Bonne

Characters who I think have raping potential:

Trish, Amaterasu, MODOK, Jill, Wesker, Morrigan, Felicia, Dormammu, Zero

Characters who I think are solid:

Akuma, Taskmaster, Shuma Gorath, Chun-Li, Haggar, Doctor Doom, Spencer, X-23, Iron Man

Characters who I think are okay:

Arthur, Super Skrull, Chris, Spiderman, Deadpool, She-Hulk, Captain America, Ryu

Characters who I think are over rated:

Sentinel

Characters who I think are underated:

Thor, C. Viper

Characters who I think are weak:

Hsien-Ko, Viewtiful Joe

I could try and formulate a list from this but there’s no point as it does a good enough job on it’s own at expresing how I feel on the matter…

He’s top. There’s no question in my mind at all about it. He has so many tools that it’s obscene and his aerial game is second-to-none.

I honestly think X-23 and Logan are going to trade places in the long run. X-23 has more options but her upper level combos are not scrubby at all. Combining all her hops and learning to cancel them will help extend her options. Logan will be a solid character but the cancelable hops and her level three will become tools that will make you throw up you gallbladder.

And Thor won’t be top but I really do not see him at the bottom.

MODOK’s gonna be one of these characters where once you’re placed in his comfort zone and he starts to get momentum it’s going to be extremely hard to move let alone get out. He can spawn his cubes in just the right places to really limit your space and if you do escape he can summon homing projectiles to further annoy you. Imo he’s probably gonna end up one of the best zoning characters in the game, if not one of the best characters period.

[media=youtube]0iY1GvyiO68[/media]

Holy. Fucking. Shit.

Rush down MODOK!? Foreal!?

Holy shit.

Love those moments where you can point to something and say “nah, all of us were wrong.” Keep-away character my ass:rofl:

All right, I’ll throw my tier list out into the wild. Just know that this list is based on what I think the metagame will evolve into down the line. So, certain characters who aren’t getting any play right now are relatively high on the list and certain characters who are getting a lot of play at the moment are relatively low.

Top Tier:

Dormammu
M.O.D.O.K.
Phoenix
Sentinel

High Tier:

Iron Man
Magneto
Storm
Taskmaster
Amaterasu
C. Viper
Wesker
Zero
Jill Valentine

Mid Tier:

Doctor Doom
Deadpool
Super-Skrull
Thor
Shuma-Gorath
Arthur
Dante
Spencer
Trish
Viewtiful Joe
Akuma

Low Tier:

She-Hulk
Spider-Man
Wolverine
X-23
Chris
Chun-Li
Felicia
Morrigan
Tron

Bottom Tier:

Captain America
Hulk
Haggar
Ryu
Hsien-Ko