Could you see the Bay hate pour in from that LOL?
Well, fuck those guys for not knowing the source material.
I always felt that the first movie did mostly right by Optimus, but the sequel and onwards? Optimus has always felt more vicious and cold, seldom saying and doing anything good only when the plot really demands it. Optimus stepping on the enemy while they’re down and shooting them? Maybe it’s just me but that’s pretty damn cold for someone who’s supposed to be heroic.
Haven’t seen the new flick (and probably won’t until it reaches FX or something), but that is one of the things that rubbed me the wrong way since I saw DoTM in the theater years ago.
As far as Optimus being cold towards his enemies like ripping their face apart or things like that, well any of us would probably be that way or worse towards a constant enemy after millions of years of them trying to kill you and your friends.
The Transformers being actual characters in these movies would be nice. As is they are just visual spectacle and nothing more.
But see, the REAL Optimus would never become that consumed by war. In every other Transformers canon, he’s battle-hardened, but never vicious or vindictive. He gives his enemies a second chance because he sees the bigger picture; that they are all Cybertronians and the last of their kind.
He fights the war, because he knows Megatron’s path will lead them all to oblivion, not to rip off robot faces and cut mobs of cons in half like a robot Kratos.
Bay’s Optimus is a very flawed hero… Interesting in his own right, but he lacks the inspiring qualities that the Optimus I grew up reading and watching instilled in me.
tl;dr How it all works.
http://www.npr.org/2014/06/29/326214943/behind-optimus-prime-and-eeyore-one-mans-signature-voice
It starts with the voice behind the lines.
It’s 100% there in TF Prime, and not in the (non-G1)movies; the writing quality could not be more lopsided. Think about it.
Relevant paragraph on this. Not spoilered, as OP dying is tradition now.
‘After agreeing not to kill off Optimus Prime in “Rebellion”, the crew somehow forgot to remind Peter Cullen about Optimus’ recovery. This resulted in the veteran voice actor growing more and more depressed while having flashbacks to his experience working on Transformers: The Movie in the 80s. While the crew was finally able to inform Peter Cullen that Optimus will in fact live, you still see the bond between him and Optimus and the heartbreak as the two are to be yet again separated from each other. Peter Cullen would be nothing without Optimus Prime in his life.'
Flashbacks.
Cullen IS this character.
We agree that he should be.
2007 OP was done right.
tl;dr for the bolded:
He lost Cybertron. He is NOT losing his home again.
No matter what.
After the 2007 movie, yes. Got hella flanderized.
TF2007 got him down right, IMO.
That Hoover Dam Autobot meeting scene. Feels every time.
Just LOOK at the distant look Optimus has when he responds to Ironhide’s statement of “They’re a primitive and violent race.”(How right he was. /AoE) It’s pretty easy to imagine that he was remembering all the brutality he saw during the Great War. 3 movies later…
On another note, they could have used replaced Springer for Drift and no fan would have questioned the 3 modes
No, I hate ‘anti-heros’ as much as I hate perfect heros. The best protagonists are the ones who on the scales of anti-hero/hero -10 to +10 - run as close to “0” as possible. Writers know and understand this and try to add wrinkles to this overtime, but usually to little success. Think Cyclops over the past few years. Think Prime in the movies. Prime has always been a ‘goody two shoes’ if you will, often to be backstabbed for it, but unlike say Naruto weird comparison - Naruto doesn’t feign ignorance to the situation and simply strives to overcome it via busting his own ass to be that much better, overshadowing everything. Not only that Optimus’s Topps card is like a +10 in ALL categories as it stands. There is literally no flaw, nothing that makes him human short of sheer ‘being too good’. On the flipside Megatron is strong as shit, but has flaws, every iteration of Megs has some major flaw that exist beyond being the villain, that makes him a more enjoyable character to me. I feel like I could know a Megs in real life. Optimus “Save A Hoe” Prime would be Drake.
It’s why Hot Rod was such a necessary thing in the cartoon as a leader, he was FLAWED, he was immature and had to grow up. What growth have we seen from OP in 4 movies? He just gets a little more ruthless because ‘Bay’. Some of you guys are right, tf1 OP was as close to the real deal as possible, though he was suicidal “Just stick it in my chest!”.
But for me, I just need a more ‘human’ protagonist (like Mark’s character, failing as an inventor and somewhat as a dad besides his best efforts and skillset).
- :bluu:
Don’t get me wrong, Prime is that dude but this is why I Optimus Primal was a better commander in my opinion.
So the EP for this movie is out. Lockdown’s Theme is powerful, eerie, and EPIC. I am actually surprised that the music in the trailer was actually music from the movie. Usually X-Ray Dog and other companies provide the soundtrack.
He was best when he wasn’t the strongest. I think one thing they did well in general on that show was make it seem as though the power levels weren’t drastically different - so tactics and skill are what made you more effective. Yeah, you had like Rampage and then the whole ‘transmetal’ buff if you will, but for the most part it was a VERY level headed show. I mean there was th episode that Waspinator somehow got Starscream’s spark and he was running SHOP…and he was powerwise the low man on the totempole. Optimus did feel much ‘realer’ on there, and while maintaining that ‘leader’ space, he still came off ‘as a friend’.
- :bluu:
Fair points, Unreallystic.
Still, it bears mentioning that even with OP as a/the paragon, as a near-flawless character, that even like that, he can’t save everyone, or even many. Every iteration of him is like that.
There’s nothing wrong with a character being near-perfect; just gotta have realistic challenges for them.
For OP, it’s that even as strong and upright as he is, he can’t change everything, and sometimes, not much at all, even.
Again, going back to the TF2007 Hoover Dam Autobot scene, you know he’s depicted like this, and you also know that
even with all that strength, that most of his species, most of his comrades and FRIENDS, his HOMEWORLD, are gone.
Power, morality, straightforwardness, compassion… can all amount to nothing, sometimes.
That’s why OP feels realistic most of the time instead of creator’s pet; sure, he’s pretty gdlk, but he’s got the chains of commanding/assorted long-term guilt and regrets INCREDIBLY hard, and he’s also got understandable motives.
That’s relate-able. It’s HAPPENED, and DOES HAPPEN, in real life.
Gotta agree with MechWarrior. With all of the crap Prime has dealt with in this movie series, how could he not be pissed? Dude has dies once, been betrayed at least twice, and had his crew hunted down and slaughtered like animals. The change in OP’s persona has been more than justified. Honestly, seeing him kinda reach that breaking point was one of the things I liked most about the movie.
I agree that Primal is probably the best characterization-- He’s not completely invincible, he’s smart, but makes mistakes, is trusting, but practical.
And despite his best efforts, his team is still just a rag-tag bunch of explorers, not warriors, save Dinobot(and pissed off Rhinox), before Silverbolt and rage-monster Depth Charge showed up.
I think one of Primal’s shining character moments was when the Maximals were under attack, he gave an order to Rattrap to activate the defense grid or something… Rattrap refused, so Primal went out and did himself.
When he completed the task and drove off the Predacons, Primal says to Rattrap and the team, "I would never give an order I wasn’t willing to do myself."
When the Vok were going to cook the planet with their death satellite, Primal volunteers to pilot the retrofitted stasis pod on an suicide mission to blow up the device. Despite Cheetor volunteering to do it himself, Primal shoots him down, realizing he is the best pilot and therefore their best chance at stopping it. He again says, “I would never give an order I wasn’t willing to do myself,” and straps in.
That’s a leader you can get behind.
Yeah, that.
You most DEFINITELY can get behind a leader who would do the same for you if you were the one in charge.(Which OP has done many times throughout TF media, IIRC!)
^Felt like wording it like this makes the point clearer. I dunno.
Doesn’t matter who it is, really; if he’s not the one best suited to lead, he’s fine with following. That’s a big part of OP’s character regardless of which one it is.
Humility.
He doesn’t LIKE leading, half the time, lol.
This movie was an utter piece of bayformer shite because:
[details=Spoiler]-Micheal Bay knows his explosions but cant get a crew together to edit a movie right. The first act went everywhere and nowhere in a short time span. That fossilized dino skeleton shown in the first scene had nothing to do with the rest of the movie.
Way too much focus on the humans in this movie. It’s called “Transformers 4: Age of extinction” not “Wahlberg and co meets robot revolution feat the robot formerly known as optimus prime”.
What also didnt help at all was alot of glaring plotholes like:
Optimus needing repairs but then repairing himself when scanning a truck that happens to be the one they need
Dinobots (who i will get to in a second) just happen to be captured on the same ship lockdown has
The entire CIA cannot hit a moving busted up Optimus Prime while moving in vehicle mode
Lockdown as baddass as he is is not used good enough through out the movie
Megatron is turned into Galvatron… The Truck and loses all personal evil charisma for which every fan loves him for.
Megatron is back but Starscream returning is too far fetched?.
Still cant fix bumblebee’s voicebox?
50 clone deceptions and yet no casualties on the autobot side.
The sword Optimus got is not that special…
No Dinobot Origin story.
Only Grimlock and Slug get decent Dinobots designs but still end up looking like Decepticons. The rest just got the short end of the stick there.
For all the exposure the Dinobots had in the trailer they sure had no depth at all in this one.
Dinobots cant speak cybertronian or english.
Dinobots have no souls no personality even though they have sparks.
Grimlock is bigger than prime but transforms during the battle to give himself a disadvantage.
Loses what they call a “Fight” and surrenders control to Optimus with ease.
Way to much time being spent on "The Seed"
Optimus can fly… At the end of the movie… As if he could fly during the whole movie instead of his slowmo vehicle mode.
Optimus leaves his team behind to find his creators while flying with the seed… IN SPACE. Thought they needed ships to travel in space?
TL;DR version: Leave all hope for a good transformer movie at the door. Do not pay to see this movie, Bad enough that this monstrosity made 100 million dollars in america in the first week guaranteeing a T5.
[/details]
You know what, I just realized, regarding the thing about volunteering for stuff that Primal did sometimes, Po, he did that
in the first episode.(in the 1-2 two-parter)
Establishing character moment, folks.
What I wanna know is…
[details=Spoiler]Why did Optimus need Jetfire’s spare parts in ROTF and his fuckin custom jetpack in DOTM to fly yet in this movie he can fly on his own??? I call BS on that one.
How much ammo did Wahlberg’s sword/rifle have anyway? Guy just fuckin shot everything without remorse Rambo style…ammo still aplenty![/details]
Wouldn’t put it beneath ROTF but man did it DRAAAAAAAAG.
There are things here that I agree with (which I bolded in your spoiler tag, but most of it I’m in disagreement with.
Personally I felt that this movie was closer to having the Autobots being actual characters in the movie vs. really cool CGI props
Out of respect for those that haven’t seen it, I’ll put my rebuttal in spoiler tags
Spoiler
I think that the robot cause was brought to the forefront throughout the movie, and the Autobot Team had a semblance of a purpose to be there. Unlike the last 3, each were distinct in their look and how they handled business. To be real, even though it is a transformers movie, unless the budget is going to go into the 1/2 billion mark, we’ll never get a movie that has a 70-30 split with the Transformer to human cast. I will say, the Decepticons get shafted all the way around as outside of Galvatron, the baddies are again just generic cannon fodder
The editing is the real killer of this movie. A tighter cut would have been worth it’s weight in gold.
The Dinobots are supposed Legendary Knights and were captured on the relic craft that Lockdown used. It just so ahppens that the one he took just happened to be a Cybertronian ship with the Knight equipment.
Optimus not getting blasted in truck mode . . . . suspension and disbelief my friend. How many times have we gone into a movie and know that current technology with weapons systems tracking could have ended a chase sequence. Its a movie with giant robots that just happen to transform into vehicles. Liberties are taken LOL
I think Lockdown was a very good person on the guest list of this movie. Made an entrance, introduced himself to the party, was a crowd-pleaser, and never overstayed his welcome.
I feel that there were no casualties because you saw 2 in the very beginning. Also, if you watch any of the new series Transformers Prime, this is pretty much the standard nowadays. The Autobots are outnumbered 500:1 and yet come out completely unscathed. Hasbro knows that from a marketing standpoint, they are really pushing the good guys as the way to go. Even in terms of figures produced for this movie, you have 5 autobots (3 of which that have multiple versions), 7 Dinobots, and 2 Decepticons. Evil is gonna be slighted.
Starscream’s head was blownup in the last movie. No real way to explain it. Yes, they could have gone the “Ghost” route, but that would be another plot point that would have been fuddled over.
The Sword of Judgement (according to the tech spec) is nothing more than a bad ass way to not have Optimus kill stuff impersonally. This makes him up close and personal. Plus it fits with the knight motif.
I think all the Dinobot designs were good actually, with the exception of Strafe (Swoop). Why did did he need two heads in beast mode? That was silly.
I was disappointed that the Dinobots had no real backstory, with the exception of the exposition line given by Optimus stating that they were the Legendary Cybertronian Knights from the golden age. At least one or two lines would have been good. I did enjoy when they were on screen though. The same complaints you have about the Dinobots are some of the same that I would say about most of the Decepticons in the 2007 movies. They showed up, wrecked shop, but had non existent personalities.
The Seed was a plot device to move things. In all honesty that was a Bay-ercized version of the Key to Vector Sigma. Takes organic matter and turns it into Cybermatter. Again, editing killed it’s use. China was the biggest flaw in this movie, as a good 20-30 from that part alone could have been taken out.
Yup, Prime can fly. Did I go WTF when I saw it, since he needed an entire trailer to get around in DOTM, and an entire other TF in ROTF. Then I thought back to this scene from the 86 Movie:
http://youtu.be/P7GeisRaias?t=32s
He used it a few times in the final battle as well. It would have been better for him to have commandeered Lockdown’s ship instead though.
TLDR Version - The action was solid, and the Autobot cast was treated like actual characters vs props. IMO, the human story was a lot less intrusive than any of the other movies. For any TF fan, there are little nods throughout the movie, and Prime’s violent streak is justified via characterization and emotion and not just because Bay wants it that way. First 1.5 hrs are good, it’s that 2nd to 3rd act that has some issues with pacing that deal really with the cutting room floor. If you found something good about the first 3, this one is a clear move in the right direction going into TF5.