the correct setup after crHP is:
crHP -> dash -> stLP (whiff) -> stHK
after EX oroshi:
LP hayate (whiff) -> dash -> stHK
after throw:
HP hayate (whiff) -> stHK
great job Armor_Break. I will update OP today!
(even if i still find that kara EX karakusa is the best thing to do after Hayate (if you want to karakusa)
This can whiff, i will look for another.
One i found for ex oroshi; *st mp, f+mk, st.HK
Edited- vryu dropping some truth!
Here is how I was thinking when searching setups:
First, to be very effective, you should be able to link crMP after a meaty stHK.
Why crMP? Because stMP or stHP will whiff in some condition (crouched opponent, character specific, etc). I prefer always use crMP (which will ALWAYS hit), than try stMP and say “argh, shit, it doesnt work on him”, and lose the round.
Knowing that, you have to look at frame data.
When you hit with stHK at the first active frame, you are at +2. So, if you hit at the last active frame (8th), you will be +9.
CrMP has 7 startup frames. So, to do stHK -> crMP, your stHK has to be AT LEAST +7.
I dont like to play with just frame link. So, i prefer to have +9, and be confortable to do my link.
=> i have to hit with the last active frame of stHK
StHK has 8 startup frames, and 8 active frames. To hit with the last active frame, 15 frames must whiff (8+7).
Knowing that, and knowing how much time your opponent is down, you can find the setup you prefer.
For example:
Against most of the cast, EX oroshi knocks down for 68 frames (there are 5-6 exceptions (cammy, sagat, etc…)).
To hit with the last active frame of stHK (the 15th), you have to move during:
68 - 15 = 53 frames
(every additional frames will decrease your frame advantage)
Now, just find some move to fill 53 frames.
I use LP hayate (36) -> dash (17)
36+17 = 53
If you look at your setup:
stMK = 22frames
f+MK = 34 frames
22+34 = 56 frames
As I said, moving during 53 frames will make you hit with the last active frame of stHK, and you will be at +9.
Moving during 54 frames = +8
Moving during 56 frames = +6
So, with +6, you cannot link crMP (7frames).
And if you want to use character-specific/position-specific stMP or stHP, you have only 1 margin-error frame for stMP (5frames), and stHP is a just frame (6 frames).
The second thing I wanted to say about your setup, is that you use normal moves.
I hate using normal moves, because they cannot be buffed.
If i use your example (stMK -> f+MK)…ok, its 56 frames, ONLY if you hit the button as soon as makoto can move. Special moves can be buffed and then can go out at the first available frame very easily. With normal move, you can miss the timing and do it 2 frames too late (except if you p-link every normal move you use…).
If you do stMK 2 frames too late after your EX oroshi, and you do f+MK 2 frames too late after your stMK, you’re finishing at 60 (56+2+2) frames, screwing completly your meaty stHK.
Concerning my setup after backthrow. Yes, it can miss, because HP-hayate = 44 frames. And i need to move during 45 frames to use meaty stHK…so, i have 1 margin-error-frame.
I still didnt find a special/dash move setup during 45 frames after a backthrow (as i said, i wont use a setup with normal moves^^)
Ok thanks for the write up! For normal moves setup you’re right, dash and special setups are superior cause of the buffer. If there are normal moves in a setup tho i treat them as a link and p link, thus normals that can be p linked are preferable if you were to use normal move setups i guess.
Quick question though does wake up frames mean the total frames it takes them to wake up, so for eg back throw 60f, is their first active frame the 61st frame?
An alternate setup for back throw i found but also has the 1f margin of error (lol best i could do), dash, whiff st hk, meaty st hk. So it can miss if you do it perfect.
Thanks for the details, quick question though, how many frames is an opponent down after each of Makoto’s hard Knockdown moves? You’ve established EX Oroshi = 68 Frames, Backthrow = 60 Frames, how about cr.HP and f+HK?
EDIT: Sorry, I didn’t check the OP, my mistake v-ryu. Thanks again though.
i wrote every wakeup frames in the OP long time ago 
Is it from the srk wiki lol? Or did you measure the timing yourself?
Also there seems to be a 1f descrepancy in your calculations. Because for back throw, hp hayate st hk meaty, hp hayate is 44f and you were aiming for 45f to hit it perfect meaty. But for a setup i calculated, dash, whiff st hk, meaty st hk, this can still whiff the opponent and its a 45 move setup (if perfect frame). So i think 46f is what should be aimed for, as in adding an extra frame to account for the first active frame? So that would mean for hp hayate, there would need to be a 2f gap before pressing st hk.
I know my meaties are hot garbage right now cause I have mainly been doing it by timing depending on a character. I’ll be trying these set ups
from japanese wiki.
yes yes, like i said in my post, i can miss it for 1 frame. But with your setup, you can miss the whiffed stHK because its a normal move :xx
I’m wondering if you are right or not, for the +1 frame on wakeup.
Because crHP = 45 wakeup frame.
Dash -> MP oroshi = 45 frame, and sometimes, it misses (maybe 5% of time…). And crHP wasnt counter hit (counter hits increase wakeup frames).
Its strange, because dash AND mp-oroshi are bufferable…and following your theory, it means that perfect timing would make my Oroshi miss. So, that would mean that i miss the timing 95% of time, even with bufferable moves (dash and oroshi). I’m sure I don’t xD I have good execution.
I think we have to look at character specific wakeup sprite.
We already saw strange things on wakeup. Like ibuki’s bug (more invulnerable frame if she wakes up with neutral position) (btw, this bug is still in, with gen).
We saw guile avoiding a second rufus’s dive kick if guile doesnt guard.
I really dont know 
EX oroshi (68) ->
(dash -> jump whiff move -> meaty crLK) = 68
My crLK has NEVER miss with this setup.
but ALWAYS miss on cammy/sagat, both have 69 wakeup frames after EX oroshi.
That would mean that the values we have (68 for EX oroshi, etc) are correct…
That is so weird, is there a phantom frame that comes and goes as it pleases? lol
But for the “yes yes, like i said in my post, i can miss it for 1 frame. But with your setup, you can miss the whiffed stHK because its a normal move :xx”, well for mine to connect i have to miss it 1f, so the timing has to be delayed for one frame, otherwise it will whiff. But that has to mean that setup you have to delay for 2f otherwise it would miss, going by the frames… Whiffing a st hk in their face can be bad ><. What is the deal lol
yes, you’re right xD
Ok ok, so do all the other meaties you calculate still work or do you need to add in a 1f delay for some of them to make them not whiff? Sorry to be a bother, but would be good to know exactly lol.
Also a frame perfect setup for back throw to meaty st hk, is dash * 2, st lp, meaty st hk.
Also some trivia st hk can combo into itself if meatiest lol, but not worth it from a practical sense. 500 stun from two normals if pretty friggin cool tho lol (562 if the first st hk ch’s).
Also one last thing do you know how much counter hit knock downs affect wakeup timing by any chance vry?
Would you happen to have any good Meaty f+MP setups? Looking at the SRK Wiki, it has 7-Frame Startup, 6 Active Frames, and is +3 on regular hit, so a Meaty could possibly push it to +9. It also deals 90 damage, more than st.HP. I tried a setup after cr.HP, by using f+MK (which is 33 Frames I believe) but it’s not reliable because it’s too easy to mistime the f+MK.
EDIT: It’s not whiffing, don’t know what the hell I was thinking. Still, gotta find a more reliable setup.
You always need one active frame for your move to connect on meaty. f+MP with 6 active frame and +3 on hit, you will have +8 at best. f+MP is not very usefull IMO, it can be use in place of st.MP but with far less options as the move has more pushback, recover slower and gives less frame advantage.
I’ve been trying to learn either meaty st.mp or st.Hk into Ultra1…but every single time, my super comes out first :wtf:…any tips?
Double tap the 3P
@chickenwing189:
Because you cancelling your stHK into super. In training mode, dont put infinity super, and it will be ok!
@candeisis:
got your PM on youtube
I have an answer, but wait that you post it here^^
Here is something i tried a bit the other day. I think it can be exploited, but we have to find the timing:
crLP -> up/forward -> 214LP+HK
if opponents guard (get hit):
crLP -> chain stLP
if opponent back dash:
crLP (whiff) -> HK tsurugi
It’s like all the stuff I think of doing you find a short cut and I feel like an idiot for doing it the hard way. Good thinking 
Ok if you think they will back dash, you can guess and forward dash karakusa and they wont be able to escape (almost all near corner). For mid screen only the slower back dashes can be punished 100% with a few exceptions.
-To Catch Wake up Back Dash (long recovery or near corner only):
-Most Backdashes grounded from frame 20 onwards: exceptions fei long (22-26), gen (24-27), Hakan (24-27), Ibuki (24-28), Rufus (26-27), Sagat (24-29)
-Thus For Average Backdash (grounded f 20 +): -Lk karakusa punish: dash 2-4f before they wakeup dash, 2f maximum for 22f backdash, for longer backdashes can widen dash window later frame for frame.
-Ex Karakusa Punish: dash 0-2f before they wakeup back dash, 0 is max for 22f backdash, for longer backdashes can widen dash window later frame for frame.
-Mid Screen 24f or slower backdashes can be punishable 100%: thus unpunishable mid screen if double back dash = Adon, Cammy, Chun, Claw, Fuerte, Rose, Gen (slow but too far too air borne), Makoto (if xx?s), Rufus (slow but too air borne), Sagat (slow but too air borne), Dan (too far), Blanka (too far), Juri (slow but too far + uniform), Seth (med but too long)
-Tight punishes/exceptions;
-Boxer (24f but long); ex karakusa only if dash 1-2f after woken up
-Cody (23f but short); lk karakusa dash 1f before wakeup, ex karakusa 0-1f after woken up
-Ibuki (28f but grounded 24-28); lk karakusa dash 0-4f after wakeup
-Viper (27f but long); lk karakusa dash 1-3f after wakeup
-Guy (26f but long); lk karakusa 0-2f after wakeup, ex karakusa 0-4f after wakeup
Could be a few more tight exceptions, didnt test all the slow backdashes except the ones that stood out as probably problematic.
[media=youtube]9GH_sBOMhT0]YouTube - Super Street Fighter 4 Online Cosabuena (Makoto Combo) Set 1 [just starting with my makoto…i think im good but need to learn more… chek my vid ou t [media=youtube]9GH_sBOMhT0]YouTube - Super Street Fighter 4 Online Cosabuena (Makoto Combo) Set 1](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCkFvaJdikE[/media) [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCkFvaJdikE[/media]