Good find. Think it should be noted st mk wont reach if you cross up chun after an unteched or untechable knockdown, since she ends up spaced more from you when you are next to her legs on the round (im pretty sure). Might be for more chars too havent tested…
against masher:
Karakusa -> HP -> HP hayate ->
HP (counter hit) -> MP oroshi -> FADC -> LP -> MP -> MP hayate
1000 stun \o/
For 1050 stun character :
Karakusa -> st.HP -> HP Hayate -> st. HP (Counter Hit) -> MP Oroshi -> FADC -> st.MP -> st.MP -> SHC LP Hayate : 1057 stun (1048 stun if you do MP Hayate instead)
One more just frame link in this one so easier to miss.
For 1100 stun character :
Karakusa -> st.HP -> HP Hayate -> st. HP (Counter Hit) -> MP Oroshi -> FADC -> st.MP -> st.MP -> st. MP -> SHC LP Hayate : 1100 stun (1096 stun if you do MP Hayate instead)
Two more just frame link in this one…
good job soldier 
(even if i wont even try to do anything after hayate against 1100 character xD)
we need moaaar tricks!
Here are a few I’ve been playin with. Some of them may have been around already…either way. Lemme hear everyone’s thoughts.
s. Strong > Karakusa Frame Trap
[media=youtube]INEBa9kYOzo[/media]
- Obviously opponent can mash invo move or jump so be aware.
“True” Frame Trap
[media=youtube]yepV8857_uA[/media]
- Opponent can mash invo move.
Cross up Fierce Possibilities
[media=youtube]2F7s5QiN6HA[/media]
Love the Karakusa Frame trap. Btw, input is meaty MP into LK Karakusa right? Or does it differ for character with larger/smaller hitboxes?
Its mainly HK Karakusa, bc the meaty MP will push you and opponent away from each other.
Jump forward HP is not really a cross-up per say as you have to block it as a usual jump forward attack. However Makoto still finish her course behind opponent. It could have been a nice mix-up between this and jump forward MK cross-up but jump MK’s hitbox is glitched and you juste have to press forward an inch to make the jump HP whiff so not a good tactic.
I’ve got some (almost) guaranteed Meaty setups off of EX Oroshi figured out, here they are:
EX Oroshi, f+HK (Feint,) f+MP whiff, st.MP. st.MP is, almost, guaranteed to hit on the last 2 frames, giving you enough advantage to even combo cr.HK. Slower wakeups like Sagat require a very slight delay.
Ex Oroshi, f+HK (Feint,) st.MP whiff, st.HK. Like the previous one, the st.HK is almost guaranteed to hit on the last 2 frames. Due to the pushback of st.HK, your best combo option is st.MK xx MP/EX/SC LP Hayate, or cr.HP.
Also, off of her Backthrow, if you whiff a f+HK (Full) and then use st.MP, st.MP will hit in its later frames as well.
Karakusa post-hayate
Not sure if this thread is the right place to post this, but I got something weird going on with karakusa after landing a hayate.
This happens with Ryu/Guile and possibly more other characters. Basically after hitting standing Ryu/Guile with s.HP xx HP Hayate, MK Karakusa will connect if it is done quick enough but it’ll whiff if done a bit later.
The way I’ve done it is buffering HCB motion while Makoto is recovering after landing Hayate and double tapped MK to make sure karakusa came out. Of course this is done after conditioning the opponent to block/scared to push any buttons.
I’m not sure if Makoto just walked back a pixel if MK Karakusa was done a bit late or if it has something to do with character animation recovering from hit stun (affecting the character hitbox maybe?)
I hope that wasnt too confusing lol, maybe someone can enlighten me about this?
It’s late here. I’ll test this tomorrow before I pack for Evo. Someone PLEASE say this man/woman does not speak madness.
he’s right, it’s character specific and I didn’t finish testing yet.
AFAIK HP xx HP hayate, karakusa mk works on akuma, dan, dee jay, guile, honda maybe more
HP xx HP hayate, karakusa lk works on fuerte
Karakusa Post-Hayate List
Did some testing on the characters, here is the list of the least range of karakusa to use (or if you’d like, the fastest karakusa) after landing a hayate. I tested on both standing and crouching position since the hitbox would be different for some characters.
For example, Balrog’s (Boxer) data would looked something like this:
Stand: HP Hayate > HK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa
This would mean after landing HP Hayate on standing Balrog, HK Karakusa would be the least range of karakusa which will connect. For any combo ending with MP Hayate on standing Balrog, kara karakusa has to be used instead.
There are some exception for some characters (e.g. Blanka), depending on which MP Hayate combo used the karakusa used would be different as well. If the opponent tries to crouch (or hold DB) after being hit by a hayate combo while standing, refer to the standing position since the distance enclosed by Makoto will still be the same.
If there is any kind of error, please let me know and I’ll fix it. Anyway, here is the list.
Abel
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa
Crouch: HP Hayate > HK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa[/details]
Adon
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > HK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa
Crouch: HP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa[/details]
Akuma
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > MK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
Crouch: HP Hayate > MK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa[/details]
Balrog (Boxer)
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > HK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa
Crouch: HP Hayate > HK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa[/details]
Blanka
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
…MP Hayate > HK Karakusa
(For s.MK xx MP Hayate and Far s.MP xx MP Hayate use Kara Karakusa)
Crouch: HP Hayate > HK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > HK Karakusa[/details]
C. Viper
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > HK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa
Crouch: HP Hayate > Kara Karakusa
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa[/details]
Cammy
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa
Crouch: HP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa[/details]
Chun-Li
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa
Crouch: HP Hayate > Can’t combo lol!
…s.HP xx MP Hayate > whiffed! :wtf: (Bug/glitches maybe?)
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa[/details]
Cody
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > HK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa
Crouch: HP Hayate > EX Karakusa! 
…MP Hayate > LK Karakusa! [/details]
Dan
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > MK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
Crouch: HP Hayate > MK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > HCB, F+HK[/details]
Dee Jay
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > MK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > HK Karakusa
Crouch: HP Hayate > MK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > HCB, F+HK[/details]
Dhalsim
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa
Crouch: HP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa[/details]
Dudley
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > MK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
Crouch: HP Hayate > LK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > MK Karakusa[/details]
E. Honda
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > MK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
Crouch: HP Hayate > HK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa[/details]
El Fuerte
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > LK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > MK Karakusa
(For cr.MP xx MP Hayate use Kara Karakusa)
Crouch: HP Hayate > LK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > MK Karakusa[/details]
Fei Long
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > HK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
Crouch: HP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa[/details]
Gen
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > HK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa
Crouch: HP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa[/details]
Gouken
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > HK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa
Crouch: HP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa[/details]
Guile
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > MK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
Crouch: HP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa[/details]
Guy
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > Kara Karakusa
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa
(For some reason, HP Hayate pushes Guy further than MP Hayate)
Crouch: HP Hayate > HK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa[/details]
Hakan
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa
Crouch: HP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa[/details]
Ibuki
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > HK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > HK Karakusa
Crouch: HP Hayate > HK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > HCB, F+HK[/details]
Juri
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa
Crouch: HP Hayate > MK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > HK Karakusa[/details]
Ken
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > MK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
Crouch: HP Hayate > MK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > HCB, F+HK[/details]
M. Bison (Dictator)
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > HK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > MK Karakusa
…Far s.MP xx MP Hayate > HK Karakusa
…cr.MP xx MP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
Crouch: HP Hayate > LK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > HK Karakusa
(Only works on close s.MP xx MP Hayate, everything else use HCB, F+HK instead)[/details]
Makoto
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa
Crouch: HP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa[/details]
Rose
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > HK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
(For cr.MP xx MP Hayate use Kara Karakusa instead)
Crouch: HP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa
(s.HP xx MP Hayate and s.HP xx LP Hayate whiffed on crouching Rose lol)[/details]
Rufus
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > MK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
Crouch: HP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa[/details]
Ryu
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > MK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
Crouch: HP Hayate > MK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > HCB, F+HK[/details]
Sagat
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > Kara Karakusa
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa
Crouch: HP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa[/details]
Sakura
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > HK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
Crouch: HP Hayate > LK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > HK Karakusa[/details]
Seth
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > HK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > HK Karakusa
(For cr.MP xx MP Hayate use HCB, F+HK)
Crouch: HP Hayate > MK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > HK Karakusa[/details]
T. Hawk
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa
Crouch: HP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa[/details]
Vega (Claw)
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > HK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa
Crouch: HP Hayate > LK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > MK Karakusa[/details]
Zangief
[details=Spoiler]Stand: HP Hayate > HCB, F+HK
…MP Hayate > Kara Karakusa
Crouch: HP Hayate > MK Karakusa
…MP Hayate > HCB, F+HK[/details]
The Guile hayate list is missed up. Might wanna check on that one
thanks for the list! very nice work.
kind of sucks that we have to memorize so much shit though, lol. capcom could have added a couple pixels of range to kara and we wouldn’t need cheat sheets to do simple mixups.
These don’t work, tested sorry.
Very good job armor break ! It seems that when MK Karakusa is possible, you can do Kara Backthrow as well wich is less dangerous as you can beat neutral jump because you have time to AA with a Fukiage. It seems to slow though to beat pokes like MK Karakusa, too bad !
Normal Karakusa after Hayate only catch people who stand on guard so it is not very usefull compared to Kara EX Karakusa because it can beat pokes as well.
Been messing with meaty st.hk into ultra lately. Feels good man.
This is why I don’t bother and just karakara.
They work well enough for me, but if everything happens on the absolute 1st possible frames, then the moves you’re trying to Meaty will whiff. The same thing happens with v-ryu’s Meaty st.HK setup (Cr.HP, f+HK Feint, st.HK,) do it all on the 1st possible frames, and st.HK will whiff on chars with normal wake-up speed.
Checked, seems fine to me. Can you tell me which part of it is messed up?
It would be nice if capcom does that.
I see, kara backthrow is a nice option. Yeah, normal karakusa is not as useful compared to kara EX Karakusa. I’d just think of it as another option available to Makoto, thats all.