Makoto Wake-up and Post-Hayate Mix-ups

Here it is :slight_smile:
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Nice! Hey vryu if possible could you add your safe jump setups off ex oroshi and back throw by any chance?

Another nice option on Wake-up is Meaty cr. MK. V-ryu already knows about it but perhaps he is greedy on this :smiley:
Timing is the same as setting up Meaty st. MP but the wonder about cr. MK is that it cannot be cancellable. So It means that you can use special move as OS unlike st. MP.

i.e meaty cr. MK -> U1 is an OS versus opponent with small Backdash like Ryu.

Another OS is Meaty cr. MK -> MP Hayate which is an OS on Ibuki’s Backdash for example. Maybe EX Hayate works, I haven’t tested it yet but it has the same start-up (16 frames) so it should works.

Also same as Meaty st. MP you can use cr. MK -> f+HP to catch Backdash with long recover like Makoto’s one.

Another good move againhst Backdash is IA MK Tsurugi, is usually catch the Backdash while consider airborne so a EX Hayate is guaranted as a combo.

Makoto’s other wake-up options.

Another nice option on Wake-up is Meaty cr. MK. V-ryu already knows about it but perhaps he is greedy on this :smiley:
Timing is the same as setting up Meaty st. MP but the wonder about cr. MK is that it cannot be cancellable. So It means that you can use special move as OS unlike st. MP.

i.e meaty cr. MK -> U1 is an OS versus opponent with small Backdash like Ryu.

Another OS is Meaty cr. MK -> MP Hayate which is an OS on Ibuki’s Backdash for example. Maybe EX Hayate works, I haven’t tested it yet but it has the same start-up (16 frames) so it should works.
Also same as Meaty st. MP you can use cr. MK -> f+HP to catch Backdash with long recover and stay grounded like Makoto’s one.
Another good move against Backdash is IA MK Tsurugi, is usually catch the Backdash while consider airborne so a EX Hayate is guaranted as a combo.

There’s probably more OS on this so it’s up to you to dig on this option.

EDIT : on small Backdash character you can replace MP Hayate by LP Hayate, it works the same way, and for character where MP Hayate hit, you can replace it by EX Hayate, it works :smiley:

haha, i’m not greedy on it, but st.HK or even cr.LP is better as meaty.

crLP -> 236236PPP -> st.MP is too good against backdash
crLP -> 236PP -> st.MP

  1. crLP -> st.LP -> st.MP if opponent blocks/gets hit
    cr.LP -> ultra1 if opponent backdash

  2. same, but EX hayate if opponent back dash

easier to confirm than cr.MK, st.MP or st.HK

But vryu wont they still cancel into specials on block? How come they don’t

You delay it so that it’s inputted during the recovery of cr.LP.
You can chain cancel during the recovery, but can’t special cancel.

Ah ok thx

recently, i use more st.HK as meaty, than st.MP, because its easier to use option select with this move.

I found an option select for about every kind of back dash (st.MK, cr.HP, f+HP, etc). But chun’s back dash annoyed me too much. (too far for crHP.).

BUT, with correct timing, you can use meaty st.HK (and confirm if it hits) as anti-back dash. Chun’s backdash is too weird, that he gets hit in the air with the meaty st.HK.

That is also good because if they absorb and back dash, they absorb stun too. For chun you can meaty st lp f + fp too since st lp is her quickest normal.

f+HP is too slow, Chun-Li can Backdash then block the f+HP. This is why V-Ryu told he has problem with Chun-Li’s Backdash as it has long range and quick recovery.

Dam thought that worked.

Edit- just tested it then and it does work, thought it did. St lp has to be very meaty tho so kinda tricky to time.

How do you Option Select the s. HK??

meaty stHK -> any anti back dash move -> crMP

ok. here is some informations about Meaty MP oroshi for massive stun.

  1. if opponent gets hit crouched
  • -> st.MP/crMP -> EX oroshi
    (note: some characters (ibuki for example) are too far for st.MP and/or EX oroshi. Just adapt with cr.MP and/or EX hayate)
    460 stun
  1. if opponent gets hit stand, or armor break
  • -> st.HP -> EX oroshi
    560 stun (610 if armor break)

note that an armored breaking meaty oroshi will force opponent to be stand (and is a counter hit)

More good info thx

Double post…

Makoto’s OS on Chun-li

For Chun-Li you have a consistant OS against her Backdash :

Meaty st.HK -> st.MK -> cr.MP.

This OS only works with meaty st.HK, if you use other meaty like st.MP / cr.LP / cr. MK etc… the st. MK will whiff.

If st.HK whiff cause of Backdash, you will hit with st.MK -> either MP / EX / SHC LP Hayate on reaction.
If st.HK Hit then you will hit with cr.MP -> MP / EX / SHC LP Hayate on reaction
If st.HK is blocked of course don’t finish by an Hayate.

A blocked meaty st.HK will usually give you frame advantage assuming you used the active frame to its biggest extent. If you hit at the last frame of the actives frames, you are at +5 but your opponent is usually a bit far (NB :mostly depends on opponent’s characte’s ability to be pushed backward when blocking) so cr. MP should be the poke of choice to force them to block.
st.LK seems a good choice too as it has more range than st. MP and following it with an Hayate Feint can be a good idea but don’t over abuse it or you will be predicable.
F+MP is a good tool to there.
F+MK isn’t bad if they stand as you finish at -1 just in front of them so you can EX Karakusa or go for the Target Combo.

st.MK is very difficult to land ( i think its a just frame OS), but yeah, its a good option.

I’ve tried a bit meaty f+MP OS yesterday, but no really good conclusion :frowning:

Edit- double post soz