So is "dash -> straight jump any move (whiff) -> (land) meaty cr.LK~" this only good set up for the meaty cr.LK? What about cr.hp -> Dash2 -> cr.Lk?
awesome stuff!
I believe HP Oroshi and EX Oroshi have the same timings, so all you can do on the one you can do on the other. I also think the same goes for Cr.HP and the F.HK(not feint). That’s at least how it feels to me, can someone else confirm or deny?
Can somebody explain me what does you guys called meaty ?
I think I understand that it’s a move you do while your opponement wake up that gives you more hitstun ? Is that right ?
You have the active frames of a move hit the opponent waking up on the first possible frame, and it works such that every active frame you skim before connecting, gives you an increased block/hit stun frame. So moves with large active frames like st mp (7 active) can get much better block advantage if you miss some of the active frames cause it hits meaty, since in the frame data block/hit adv is calculated assuming the move hits on the first active frame.
still no answers from moderators to sticky it 
btw, updated with some things (wakeup frames, and post-EX oroshi)
put it into the first post of the tip and trick and mixup sticky you have, its a relevant title and alreayd a good thread.
Is there a better punish if they jump back other than j.hk? Better yet, if you OS s.mp -> dash is there something you can do to punish a jump back?
if you’re talking about post hayate, a well timed s.mp should catch them in pre-jump frames, grounding them
edit:might not work with lp hayate, possibly just whiff anyway due to range
^ Oh yeah what was i thinking
i’ve post this long time ago in another thread (dont remember), but because its again a “meaty”, i didnt think it was good to post it in the OP. But a friend told me “oh you should”.
So…
st.HK can be used as meaty too. You can do:
st. HK -> st.MP -> EX hayate/oroshi
st. HK -> ultra1
st. HK -> st. HP -> EX hayate (chara specific)
[media=youtube]EMSQ8oVvhhc[/media]
and, meaty cr.MK as well.
Wow that seems really good, will it beat wakeup backdashes too? Testing it whiffs, what is backdash invcible frames, like 8? So as meaty would whiff backdash?
You can also get a meaty st. HK after a back+throw by doing back+throw -> backdash -> forward dash -> st. HK
Even non-meaty would whiff backdash. s.hk is listed with 8 active frames. And yeah, backdashes generally have 8 frames of invincibility. (Dudley and Fuerte are listed with 7.)
One possibility, for a portion of the cast, is to use mk/hk karakusa if you’re certain they’re gonna backdash. A number of characters have a grounded non-invincible 9th frame during a backdash. These characters are…
Akuma/Gouki, Balrog/Claw, Dan, Dhalsim, E. Honda, Fei Long, Gen, Gouken, Ken, Rufus, Ryu, Sakura, and Seth.
So I suppose that if you find yourself at zero frame advantage… And are relatively close to these characters… AND you’re fairly certain they’re gonna backdash or at least sit blocking… You might be able to catch them with a mk/hk karakusa.
Nah non meaty wouldnt whiff, you just need to have a frame or two startup once they’re up. It’s pretty good anti back dash normal. Like i saw daigo last weekend similarly use ryu cl hk a lot on wakeup to beat focus (ryus is 2 hits), backdash and any low invincible specials.
My assumption was that you wanted the attack to at least hit on the first frame after they wake-up. So yes, you can hit anybody out of wake-up backdash if you use any normal with enough range late enough. Doesn’t have to be a roundhouse or anything.
Good luck on doing that to chun though…
I think st rh is a pretty good anti back dash non meaty or os, long active frames beat/trade with low invincible specials, has good range, safe on block (except for 2 f stuff), and gives 250 stun. If they focus back dash they escape but they still eat the 250 stun cause focus still takes on stun.
Stickied up. I’ve been using Makoto a lot, so it would have been stuck ASAP if it weren’t for some issues on my end. Good stuff!
Updated OP
Safe jump against 3F reversal moves (see EX oroshi section)
video coming tonight
hey I’m looking forward to it 