They better not beat Vryu with the nerf bat, that would be a sad day for Makotos everywhere.
Vryu: I agree with a lot that you say. My friend Sean plays one of the best hakans in the U.S and I’ve been playing him for years. It’s another situation where the matchup doesn’t mean anything. There’s something to be said for player ability but there is a limit to what’s possible with any given character. The best example that I can come up with is I-no From guilty gear. Theoretically she’s an extremely strong character. If you have flawless execution she’s amazing. How many people play her? Like 3. I think this is one if the reasons makoto isn’t played as much either. It’s a matter of gameplay not being obvious I think. That’s really the reason I play makoto probably. Her potential is huge but it takes a lot of work to get to the level of playing her.
P.s. I’m unfamiliar with what a v-tsurugi is
INO!
she was my character in guilty gear too. I love her goddamnit!
v-tsurugi = plink tsurugi
But I agree with you. Dive kick characters are extremly annoying, because it has nothing to do with “read”. The risk/reward against them are too high for makoto 
Just heard about this now and yeah…what the fuck. We don’t need a new DLC patch version of AE every year, and it’s way early for a 4th disc version of the same game to come out. If there’s a new game entirely every 11 months or whatever, I can’t see that having a positive impact on the metagame or on getting new people into it.
I just use mak’s lk > mk target combo against dive kicks and if I block one I c. Lp + lk + mk and they get hit out of the dive if they go for another. If you do a character comparison if guile vs makoto for instance, guile would lose. It’s clear that what makoto can POSSIBLY do is much stronger than what guile can. However, in practice guile is much easier and that means you automatically have a skewed comparison. Just like sol vs ino.
P.s. ino is totally my main too 
with the rebalance I might play justice though. Have to experiment
To expand on that, makoto is the purest form of Yomi, or the guessing game involved in street fighter. The most basic part of this is a rock papers scissor mentality where hit beats throw, throw beats block, and block beats hit. The advantages of each aren’t as simple, but I might get into that later. Makoto’s standing mixup out of a hayate forces this guessing game over and over again. There are times where there is a clearly ‘best’ option. Meaning it can only be beaten by one or two things. This is also the reason why karakusa is a BAD option because it only beats block. Yeah, you can frame trap with it but setups aren’t great (I can get into that later too if you want). If you take a person who understands their defensive options, how many favorable mixups do you think you can actually net? Especially when at the very least invincible srk and blocking beat a large portion of your options? That’s why makoto players have to play it smart and it’s also why I lose to idiots.
It reminds me of that episode of bot meets world where minkus has to play that perfect chess playing computer to win the school a computer lab. Cory is an idiot and has no idea how to play chess. He makes one move and minkus says " I don’t even know how to respond to that." he then learns how to play like an idiot and beats the computer. Welcome to the life if a makoto player.
After normal Hayate, yes, I agree.
But for hardknockdown, it’s different.
In fact, Makoto has setups which force opponent to block, because EVERY other options are beaten (shoryuken, backdash, FA, etc etc).
And when, to the same setups, you add the crossup/non-crossup guessing game. It becomes a total nightmare for them.
Oh, and when I say “guessing”…it’s really “guessing”…because it’s impossible to see if she will hit in front or crossup.
A-N-D at the very last, you can add your little karakusa (in case of they are focusing…hem…guessing on guarding the right way, you’re happy
Ah, and in case of they guard, you’re at -2. So no punish.
50-50 mixup withstanding, you’ve got to put them into a position to use a setup. A lot of which are out of back throw (afaik). Makotos foot speed is atrocious. Her normals are good but she’s not a footsies character. In a game that heavily revolves around your ground game, scoring the knockdown, and then raping–not having even close to average walk speed is such a huge flaw. So I guess what I’m asking is the character has retardedly huge strengths and probably some of the worst weaknesses in the game. It ends up being about how the player can overcome her weaknesses. How do you out footsie someone like gamerbee with a character that sucks at footsies? This is a huge problem for me. Some players might whiff a normal and I’ll punish with a sweep and get in. However, players like gamerbee, daigo, John choi, etc aren’t going to whiff unless they want to. How would you approach it? Playing a high level player like choi feels like you’re never getting in or you’re completely stifled.
dude, even high level players wiff normals and not necessarily on purpose! so many times have i seen mago punish ryu’s wiffed cr mk with feilongs rekkas against daigo and others. high level or not, you gotta make those openings happen. no player has a 100% foolproof game plan, and this is what makoto does, she cracks the code. when you can see the code/matchup and player habits you can now force the mistakes.
by the way, i get my setups from any knockdown! if you as a makoto player depend mostly on backthrow for setups, you’ve already lost the match.
gotta have that tai chi mentality when using makoto lol
I don’t use setups other than a few safe jumps. I’m not getting beaten by good players. I’ve won against some if the bigger names consistently. I just haven’t gone to evo yet. In my opinion a setup is really only good if 1. You can do multiple things out of it or 2. It eliminates all of their options.
Against good players I win but against GREAT players I lose. The reason is my ground game. I just wanted to hear vryu’s POV.
even if they dont whiff normals (which is never the case), you still have lot of options to get close.
For example, you can FAdash (on reaction) ryu’s fireball at mid-range (further than crMK range).
And any of your move will lead into a knockdown (EX hayate or EX oroshi). It’s like you never hit your opponent :eek:
Seriously, closing distance is not difficult (even against daigo, I didnt have problems).
Maybe you dash too much? Do you have a video of you?
maybe that could help you?
@6m25s
[media=youtube]_qmnUyvFQ_4[/media]
I seriously need to train myself to FA Dash Ryu’s fireballs more often. Nothing breeks a Fyu player’s spirit faster than realizing his precious little d.mk fireballs “block string” is getting blown up. It rocks their whole world.
The only times I really eat damage are out of a bad read, typically when I’m doing too much and eat a dp into x, 50/50 mixup, karakusa losing to basically anything. My OS dashing needs work. I don’t really know. I blow up some of the better known players pretty consistently. I just lose to random. I’ll try to record something this weekend. I guess I just get frustrated in the footsies game when my opponent has go to normals like bison or chun
makoto’s stand HK > chunli. That could help you.
For the random, it’s the same for any character.
Don’t you think ryu take huge risk to throw a fireball at jumping range?
Yeah most actions have some kind of risk to them. I guess I’m just whining. I feel like I’m Playing a different game than they are. I think about every button I press and I feel like they just think ‘he’s doing something, srk’ so if I punish them over and over and they lose it’s not even fun to me. It’s not the game I enjoy. Yeah, I’m whining lol
maybe you should:
- make some break during your pressure,
- use some setups which avoids shoryuken, but still apply pressure
- delay a bit your moves to not be “reversaled” during your rush
You should be happy that their only escape is doing shoryuken
Yeah I do need to use more safe jump setups. That would lead to my OS dashing or a backdash punish or a block string… Or a tick throw… Etcetc
Btw hakan is so fat it’s hard to fukikusa him not to mention more risky against him. He has uncrouchable setups that throw you into 50-50s where you either backdash or don’t. If he thinks you’ll backdash then he can just delay it. You’ll see it in my videos. They’ll be against my friend Sean who has a really nasty hakan
Rematch option for endless lobbies with only 2 players
Rematch option from the pause menu
Button config on char select screen
Offline replays
Increase battle log to 100 replays
Hide player names from replays (either P1/P2 or both)
Select BGM (P1/P2/Stage) by pressing back/select at stage select
Option to eliminate certain stages from Random Stage select (eg. I never choose Volcanic Rim). Perhaps do the same for Random Char select?
Fix Gouken and Akuma’s BGMs
More stages
Option to set health in training mode: Infinite/Zero/Fixed amount (for testing combo damage)
Option to set dummy to not block on wake up even though autoguard is on
Dummy wakeup option: Special, normal, throw, (high/low) block, jump, backdash, custom, random
Option to switch P1 and P2 chars (and Ultras) in training mode without going to char select screen
Extend dummy recording time (I think SFxT is unlimited?)
Match request in training mode
Online training mode
Ability to switch training stage
Ability to pick old versions of chars (I dunno how I feel about this option for tourneys though)
Shorten the length of some of the Ultras and throws (eg. Seth U1, Blanka f.throw)
Can’t remember if Japanese Dan’s EX Gadouken voice has been fixed but it used to be too loud
X-platform online play? Pretty please?
As far as balance goes I mostly want them to revisit meter gain for different chars (eg. Chun should build more, Seth should build less).
Give us more reasons to use Ultras like Boxer U2, Guile U1 etc. In fact, tweak all “useless” moves like Blanka far st.lk
There are other balance things I think they should consider but that’ll take more than one post to explain.
Against 4F+ reversal (since you cannot safe jump 3F (except some conditions)), you shouldnt OS dash. Because if they do reversal, you get hit. Except if you’re timing your dash like this:
f,b,f
and reversal hits at the exact moment of “b”. But thats just unreliable 
OS dash are good when you break charge of Dictator for example (backthrow -> f. Jump -> f+MP OS dash), because he cannot EX psycho crusher).
Hakan “uncrouchable” setups are avoidable with any crouching move on wakeup (the same as against guy EX roll or cammy hooligan on wakeup).
When you’re waking up, your character is still standing for few frames, that’s why you get thrown. But if you do any crouching move (crMK on wakeup for example), you dont get thrown.
edit:
@ilitirit:
it’s like you’re speaking about guilty gear training mode 
OH, they should add (like in GG) a “button press” to record and play the dummy.
It’s annoying to go into training options to choose recording -> replay
Haha, I thought this thread was in the main SSFIV forum. No wonder there are so many people talking about Makoto lol.