Makoto Ultra SFIV

[wirestyle]

Against 4F+ reversal (since you cannot safe jump 3F (except some conditions)), you shouldnt OS dash. Because if they do reversal, you get hit. Except if you’re timing your dash like this:
f,b,f
and reversal hits at the exact moment of “b”. But thats just unreliable

OS dash are good when you break charge of Dictator for example (backthrow -> f. Jump -> f+MP OS dash), because he cannot EX psycho crusher).

Hakan “uncrouchable” setups are avoidable with any crouching move on wakeup (the same as against guy EX roll or cammy hooligan on wakeup).
When you’re waking up, your character is still standing for few frames, that’s why you get thrown. But if you do any crouching move (crMK on wakeup for example), you dont get thrown.

edit:
@ilitirit:
it’s like you’re speakingT about guilty gear training mode

OH, they should add (like in GG) a “button press” to record and play the dummy.
It’s annoying to go into training options to choose recording -> replay

I was jabbing on wake up for awhile but if he times it perfectly, which he does now, you’ll still get grabbed. The idea is your standing hitbox becomes a crouching hitbox but he just grabs me out of it. There are frames where you are considered standing absolutely. What happens is his window becomes tighter but he can still grab you. That shit is active forever and it’s faster. That’s prob why it works differently.

[Hitomi]

I was jabbing on wake up for awhile but if he times it perfectly, which he does now, you’ll still get grabbed. The idea is your standing hitbox becomes a crouching hitbox but he just grabs me out of it. There are frames where you are considered standing absolutely. What happens is his window becomes tighter but he can still grab you. That shit is active forever and it’s faster. That’s prob why it works differently.

This is gonna sound crazy, but try MP Fukiage if you know he’s going to DDT. In my limited testing against Hakan back in the day, the initial throw immunity let her dodge both U1 and DDT, but that was limited and probably flawed testing. Try it out, LMK.

[v-ryu]

I absolutly never had any problem with crouching moves on wake up to avoid meaty standing grab (hakan, guy, cammy).
You just missed the timing of your jab.

ps: oil dive has only 4 active frames.

[wirestyle]

I absolutly never had any problem with crouching moves on wake up to avoid meaty standing grab (hakan, guy, cammy).
You just missed the timing of your jab.

ps: oil dive has only 4 active frames.

I’m not talking about what I’ve seen only in matches. We thoroughly tested it. I’m going to do it again this weekend. It’s possible that we’re wrong but I’d be really surprised. We tested it for hours.

4 active? Really? That means his recovery starts in the air?

It’s hard to tell whether it’s me timing the jab correctly or him mistaking the setup. I think youre probably right though.

[wirestyle]

This is gonna sound crazy, but try MP Fukiage if you know he’s going to DDT. In my limited testing against Hakan back in the day, the initial throw immunity let her dodge both U1 and DDT, but that was limited and probably flawed testing. Try it out, LMK.

You get grabbed out of every version of fukiage of the throw is timed correctly. There’s too much startup and the throw invul is only like 3 frames. It’s kind of like how ex oroshi isn’t invul until it becomes active and you can be hit out of it.

Edit: if hakans grab is 4 frames it’s possible that I could use it but I thought you only had like 3 invul to throw frames and they weren’t right in the beginning. Am I wrong?

[v-ryu]

Again, it’s absolutly impossible to be catch if you success your “reversal” crouching attack, since you’re crouching at the 1st wakeup frame.
Try to p-link crMK if you have problems.

Oh, and another thing, yes, Oil Dive has 4 active frames (http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV_AE/Hakan).
So, if your opponent wants to catch you during the “wakeup -> crouching” transition frames, he wont be able to catch your backdash, since it has 8 invulnerable frames.

[wirestyle]

Again, it’s absolutly impossible to be catch if you success your “reversal” crouching attack, since you’re crouching at the 1st wakeup frame.
Try to p-link crMK if you have problems.

Oh, and another thing, yes, Oil Dive has 4 active frames (http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV_AE/Hakan).
So, if your opponent wants to catch you during the “wakeup -> crouching” transition frames, he wont be able to catch your backdash, since it has 8 invulnerable frames.

You can hold it down and he runs in place. Basically delays the grab part of it. He uses the fierce version to catch me if he thinks I’m going to backdash

[Hol_Horse]

- OFFLINE REPLAYS

• take away the unblockables
• super meter charges faster, ultra meter slower

[Hitomi]

Ryan Hart and a few of the Japanese have apparently been hinting their is a Version 2013 in the works.
Tweet from Ryan “Ok guys,what would you say if I said SSF4 AE 2013? The question is,do we need a re-balance or is 2012 ok?What would you change if you could?”

What are your thoughts on this and what changes would you like to see, if any?

I’m not sure what I’d like, perhaps F.LK better on hit/block by 1 or 2 frames (I used this last night in a few games against Ryu, I was able to use it against Ryu C.MK pretty well) and hitbox extended downward to catch low attacks easier. Aside from that I don’t think she needs anything.

I’d love new costumes and stages…but I’ve mentioned that like, billions of times now.

You might wanna rename this “Makoto SSFIVAE ver.2013”

[Godly-Effect]

- OFFLINE REPLAYS

• take away the unblockables
• super meter charges faster, ultra meter slower

They tried that. New ones were discovered very shortly after.

[v-ryu]

You can hold it down and he runs in place. Basically delays the grab part of it. He uses the fierce version to catch me if he thinks I’m going to backdash

Yes I know. But here, you’re entering in the syndrom of “if I dont jump, he does hadoken; If I jump, he does shoryuken => I can’t do anything!§!§!”.
lol

[wirestyle]

Yes I know. But here, you’re entering in the syndrom of “if I dont jump, he does hadoken; If I jump, he does shoryuken => I can’t do anything!§!§!”.
lol

Nah i just though it was a 50/50. I’m probably wrong though. I’ll plink mk and we’ll see if he can snag me

[v-ryu]

back to the topic:

• Better jump MK hitbox (make it like Sakura, for example)
• Tosanami: No more whiff when hits in the air
• crLK: +4F on hit
• f+LP: +4F on hit
• stHP: +1F of hitstun (that would allow stHP -> LP oroshi to combo) OR HP-hayate (MP-hayate lvl2) FADC beeing +5
• stHP: no more lose of 1F hitstun on crouching opponent
• EX oroshi Throw invulnerable

[Godly-Effect]

back to the topic:

• Better jump MK hitbox (make it like Sakura, for example)
• Tosanami: No more whiff when hits in the air
• crLK: +4F on hit
• f+LP: +4F on hit
• stHP: +1F of hitstun (that would allow stHP -> LP oroshi to combo) OR HP-hayate (MP-hayate lvl2) FADC beeing +5
• stHP: no more lose of 1F hitstun on crouching opponent
• EX oroshi Throw invulnerable

stHP +1F would mean stHP > HC > stHP wouldn’t it? Perhaps LP oroshi starting up a little quicker would be better and not potentially push her too far?

[v-ryu]

yeah, and stHP HC ultra1 xD (but shhhhhh :p)

yes, LP oroshi 1 frame faster would be good.

[the_mossad_man]

If viper can do it I don’t see why Makoto can’t.

But you know that would be broken! Come on vryu you would be doing:

SHP HC x 3 on Honda/Abel etc lol. Corner combo would do like 500 damage for 2 bars lol. Maybe if they gave +1 to hit stun they would have to make it pushback more to balance…

I say make create a character lol. Just give Makoto a tiger shot and make mini tosanami that combos off of sHP in the corner and combos into Fukiage. Imagine the unblockables and XUs.

Or they could just make Makoto S+++ tier by making Tsurugi an overhead

[Killer_Jigglypuff]

There’s an idea: new move for Makoto: QCF K while grounded to do the wall dive part of Abare. Corner escapes for days.

[the_mossad_man]

I want that so bad. Wonder how they’d balance it lol

[v-ryu]

@mossad man:

Karakusa -> stHP hc stHP hc stHP -> LP oroshi FADC stHP hc stHP hc stHP -> LP oroshi FADC stHP hc stHP hc stHP hc Ultra1

xD

[Time_pants]

It reminds me of that episode of bot meets world where minkus has to play that perfect chess playing computer to win the school a computer lab. Cory is an idiot and has no idea how to play chess. He makes one move and minkus says " I don’t even know how to respond to that." he then learns how to play like an idiot and beats the computer. Welcome to the life if a makoto player.

Ironically, no one in Topanga League would get this reference.