11 frames is actually enough for us to do a safejump setups on a backthrow, then do a meaty or backdashb out if they use DWU I think.
I thought it was 12 but 11 frames is okay.
I’ve abandoned set ups (except maybe once in a while) now anyway and play a lot better without them.
Also I love forward throw in this version (I actually use it more than forward throw now), extended range means I might be able to do kara-throw from LP Hayates on hit.
@wirestyle That was me actually. I recall after testing someone said st.HP>ex.fuki>mk.Axe>ex.hayete was a mid screen combo for 400 damage but I didn’t get to try it. What got me was ex.fuki on block is still jump cancellable, so I was doing nj.lp>hk.karakusa and crossup mk>hk.karakusa and just opening people up.
I think Makoto is going to have a big net gain going into Ultra. We took a couple of hits sure but with her new defensive options, new midscreen offensive options, a reliable crossup, and many of our worst matchups getting hit with the nerf bat, I think we’re in the driver’s seat fellas. This game is ours for the taking this time.
After learning exactly how the delayed wakeup circumstances are, I am pretty sure okizime characters are not going to be nerfed as bad as people think they are. What people are losing isn’t wakeup game so much as they are losing option selects on wakeup. For example, if Makoto does backthrow>dash>j.hk and they use delayed wakeup, that gives makoto enough time to land, and I believe use a meaty karakusa following it. Essentially, if your original meaty setups were met with thin air, you should have roughly 11 frames to execute a new mixup to follow it, but as option selects go, if they began with a meaty jump attack, those are going to be impossible to rely on so long as the opposing player reacts to the jump with delayed wakeup.
Oh nooooo, people have to rely on mixing up and reactions rather than option selects to cover everything. :o
I would like to know if Capcom have any ideas on how to handle Proximity OS. Also it got really annoying hearing commentators say “he Prox OS that, everything is Prox OS!”. I don’t care if they are kidding around it got old really fast, just like collusion. Poor commentary can really take away from a really good match.
Judging by what Combofiend was saying,outside of fuki jc on block,are they happy with the changes?
I’m sure Makoto will have new “setups” that kinda cover both regular and delayed wakeup but require commitment to cover select number of oponent’s options - reversals, backdash, crouch tech, block, focus, etc. After all she has tons and tons of active frames on some of her normals and some nice specials to punish opponent’s options (something in the lines of FukiKusa OS).
I’m excited for USFIV Makoto. Didn’t expect those particular changes. I had hoped for buffing her Karakusa and post Hayate game (I say game because I refer to what she can do around those two moves now and what she could do around them in 3S rather than the moves themselves).
This EX Fuki stuff is going to be nice and lots of fun. Can’t wait.
U1 damage nerf + damage she gets midscreen from EX Fuki + fireball invisibility for U2 makes me wonder about what her go-to ultra will be: UW or U2. I myself would love to go with Ultra W as long as I could dish around 400 meterless damage with UW1 from standard scenarios (after Karakusa or after IAT) and do around 500 on clean hit with optimal for damage followup from UW2.
If that’s not the case because damage reduction for UW1 is to big in those scenarios I will probably go with raw U2, since with relatively little meter she can do just right amount of damage midscreen with EX Fukiage stuff from same scenarios U1 does and U2 will cover other options.
One question - is this possible in USFIV?
IAT/Karakusa, s.HP xx HC, s.MP xx EX Fukiage, kara HP Fukiage (or dash, LP Fukiage) xx JC xx EX Tsurugi ?
In USFIV,if the damage scaling stay the same, U1 from a karakusa=384dmg. From IAT,444dmg. With the W Ultra Combo all ultras damage does around 60%-66% of their effective damage (i.e. U1 damage is 440,with W Ultra=around 264dmg). With karakusa,U1 become almost a 200dmg Ultra Combo. No,I’m gonna choice one of’em like now.
Your last combo is doable if Capcom let her hit everything she touch. Let me explain: remember when Makoto hit with U2 in non-full animation? If we do U2 with lk/mk we can’t do fukix2 and even if we do U2 with HK we can do max 2 fukiage,even if we try another one with a kara. It’s a system choice,I don’t know if they do that to avoid possible 100% stun combo again (in non full animation U2 the stun still goes),but we have to wait to know if Capcom still give her a limit about that.
Don’t see problem with that.
Didn’t hear you can not combo Fuki into another fuki in USFIV.
Right now you can AA with Ex Fuki into HP Fuki into EX Tsurugi. I just wonder if in USFIV grounded Ex Fuki juggles high enough to connect kara HP Fuki - regular HP Fuki may not travel far enough to catch 'em on the way down and kara HP Fuki may be not fast enough.
That scalling is rough as hell, hence no one will use UW with their character.
Game is still in development, that’s why I think Capcom will change it in time - there’s no point in inventing new mechanic if no one will be using it. It does not make sense at all both from design and business perspective.
I think Capcom will choose to tweak each ultra damage in UW individually instead of flat % cut off, based on it’s utility. Hope I am not wrong.
My point is - if UW1 in standard scenarios does decent damage it will be useful, since you don’t always dash around with two or more EX bars - it’s always nice to have access to decent meterless damage. If at the same time UW2 is still scary as a punish tool it will make a lot of sense to use UW. Otherwise U1 is not so great as it is now in AE.
although I haven’t heard anyone confirming that combo, I see no reason why kara hp fuki wouldn’t hit after a grounded ex fuki. I guess you never know what tweaks they’ve done to the move…
One thing I love about UW is that only the ultra itself has the damage reduced. So if I understand correctly, the follow ups to U2 is not nerfed when used in UW.
Wouldn’t the overall damage be less than just picking u2 itself?
I’m…honestly not sure how our Ultra situation is going to play out. I’ll have to see the final numbers before making the call on WU, but I dunno. It sounds nice on paper, but man I have stolen a ton of games off a mk IAT > U1 or some such. I dunno if I wanna give that up.
I dont understand the purpose of our super anymore. Anybody can do it know with a red focus cancel. There is nothing to use except Ultra 1 to make it usefull but Ultra 1 damage has been nerfed. We had a unique move which is now for everyone. We also need more super than we used to with the ex fuki.
We’re hardly the only players with a useless super. I know Cody for example gets more damage in a 3 bar combo than he can ever get using his Super.
cody can AA into super for some fat damage to close out the round.
maybe if they added a parry for tanden renki … one can dream.
the only other thing i could think of to make it not the worst use of meter in the game is a HUGE per-move damage boost instead of a set %. this is more in line with 3s, if you’ve ever seen her hit someone A2A with jump HK in SA3 you’ll know what i’m talking about.
they should add stun and/or juggle capabilities to it to make it more useful…
ATM rarely we use Tanden Renki in game,3/4 of our arsenal include at least an EX bar. Now Capcom add the EX Fuki hit ground,so the situation for our Super is even worse.
I would preferred more attention in the post Hayate area,something meterless. Makoto still need meter to much,we deserve something for a character who can’t take advantage of the FADC like others characters. She is or not an high damage character? Plus,with DWU we gonna have bad times trying meaties. Sad about that.
As far as the UW debate goes, it seems like Makoto would be one of those characters that would rather just have one Ultra or the other. The utility of u2 does not make up for the damage nerf of u1. That said, there are characters with two utility ultras and those characters might find use in having UW (Grapplers come to mind).