I’d rather have the 882 stun. You’re one f throw away from stun on pretty muh everyone at that point, and resulting combo will net you much more reward than a one touch stun would. Possible explanation for the f throw range buff?
I think I will be using ultra W exclusively. the mixups from ex fukiage j.hp are too good. instant tsurugi xx ultra 1 to blow up crouch techers. backdash, ultra 2 for mashers.
This reminds me, I dont know if it has already been said here before, but it has been confirmed that ExFukiage cross-under does **NOT **work.
ExFukiage doesnt cross-under and hit in front, kara ExFukiage does cross-under but doesnt hit. It has apparently been tested on the whole cast.
Lior (french Makoto player who tried Dreamhack usf4 alpha) confirmed it on twitter:
Maybe they altered ExFukiage hitbox/distance to prevent it from working.
U1 full charge in W mode will only do 264 damage, so:
MK.tsurugi>WU1 = 100+264*0.8 = 311 damage
MK.tsurugi>HP>HP.hayate = 268
so you basically use your full Ultra meter for 43 more damage, and I’m not even comparing with meter combos.
Damage wise WU1 is worthless, and with Okizeme nerfed we wont rely that heavily on U2 to escape corner, so I dont really see any reason to use the Wmode.
is that damage confirmed? cause I heard that the damage reduction for W ultra isn’t universal. I think the versatility in the end will trump over the damage.
It has been confirmed it’s around 60%, but yeah no precise number for each ultra.
But it will be around 264, it wont vary much. Several reports from people who tried the alpha build confirmed that WU1 is basically pointless.
By the time full ultra meter is reached, you’ll likely have at least one ex meter.
So as far as 6f punish goes:
for mixup:
S.HP>Ex.Fukiage>j.HP = 280
for damage:
S.HP>Ex.Fukiage>HK.Tsurugi = 320
and far more with more meter.
The point of U1 is damage. The only time you would use WU1 is when you would benefit from OS/invincibility, in most situations you’ll choose going for a combo instead of WU1.
Sadly the current consensus about W-Ultras is that they’re quite useless for most of the cast, even Vryu agrees it’s the case for Makoto.
I’m not happy about the reduced damage for U1! that last hit won’t be finishing the job anymore…
She won’t have to rely on it as much anymore, though, with her better midscreen damage.
Capcom probably looked at it and thought it was very good for Mak, so the damage reduction is big for us.
Funnily enough, every character that thought it was gonna be good is a bit doubtful about it now. ( Grapplers, Mak, Fei/Cammy, etc )
Main character that seem to like W ultra are like Chun Li, Dhalsim and stuff.
I think I’ll stay with the setup I use at the moment, beside switching from U2 to U1 is match up like Sakura and Gen.
Perhaps pick U2 against Juri and Gouken, we’ll see.
Outside hitting ground opponents the EX Fukiage get some extra properties? (fireballs inv.,inv.frames,throw inv) If not the jump cancellability on block is deserved imo.
However if the game is out in April (Japan arcades only) Capcom has still time to fix something,especially in post hayate mixups or general mechanics.
That’s unfortunate. Capcom will most likely take the feedback from the Loke tests and buff the damage on ultra W. If they are making a new mechanic and barely anyone is using it, they will buff it for sure.
I’m at northeastern championships right now. Confirmed with combofiend that ex oroshi has throw invul. I played him for a set and we went down 2-3. Last round was close. Also met citiofbrass, super nice guy and another makoto (can’t remember his name, sorry!).
It seems like the choice between ex fukiage and ex hayate is based on where the opponent ends up ie ex hayate for corner carry + mixup and ex fukiage for damage and mixup esp mid screen. Also think of spacing for some if the option selects. Fierce hayate perfectly spaces you for a karakusa os fukiage. There are definitely reasons to use each.
New build looks really fun and makoto looks really strong.
hows that karakusa recovery?
Feels the same imo
It’s a weird thing to change anyway. 47 or 52 frames, whatever… It’s not like we got away with whiffed grab before.
Yeah, this was what I was thinking. This would be a very pointless “nerf” because you can already do pretty much whatever the fuck you want to Mak anyway so I wouldn’t really give a shit about that nerf.
One thing I asked Combofiend was why they changed the throw ranges for backthrow and forward throw–especially when delayed wakeup is going to remove a lot of the setups. He said that a character like Makoto gets a little too much out of a backthrow in the form of setups and shenanigans.
Honestly, I don’t think it matters. Backthrow isn’t going to be what it was just because of delayed wakeup. We may find some tech to cover that option–which is where i think the game is going to go, but most characters at best will only force a block > frame trap/OS punish for backdash or jump. Makoto is going to be more of an on the fly mixup monster. We’re going to lose a lot of our setups, but she gains a defensive ability, more ways into her mixup from grounded fukiage hitting, better crossup hitbox on j.mk (which the hitbox itself was all i could hope for.)
All in all I think we’re going to be pretty happy with what they did.
oh any FYI–in order to do the delayed wakup you have to time it when your back is flat on the ground and hit two buttons. It’s a decision KIND OF before you know whats going to happen.
I’ve been thinking about how I’m going to use kara ex fuki to punish wiff normals/specials from max distance… I’m slowly beginning to get my mind wrapped around the makoto changes but with the delayed wakeup stuff it’s probably for the best. I still say there was no reason for the back throw, karakusa and U1 nerfs though but whatever!
good to hear about the delayed wake up timing, hopefully we get a way around that and I can still get my meaty setups at least in some situations?
It’ll probably be treated the same way that quick rise is now. If you have a setup that works, use it, but if they aren’t ever doing quick rise you’re better off doing something else. Untechable knockdowns will be the next tier of that. I think the gameplay is going to be a lot more grounded in ultra. It’s going to probably be more fundamentals based than setup based. I don’t want to speak in absolutes, but it seems like thats what they are shooting for.
Just curious if anybody knew the exact frame delay on delayed wakeup? I’ve been trying to keep an eye out but hadn’t seen anything concrete, it was looking like a very slight delay since the get-up animation stays the same.
By my reckoning the delayed wakeup falls into a couple categories:
7 frames or less: Makoto can cover both timings with a single setup. Perfect meaties aimed at the delayed wakeup can still catch the regular wakeup thanks to her comical number of active frames.
7 frames or more: Safe jump setups now double as a generic setup for potentially meaty normal/karakusa/tsurugi mixups…
7 frames is a pretty sweet spot. Choosing to delay your wakeup just puts you even deeper into the grinder.
On the off chance that it’s much higher: At around 18 frames when the mule kick can no longer connect(15th frame is perfect meaty + 1 airborne + 2 grounded recovery) the options dry up for a couple frames, you’re left with a meaty regular throw/IA Tsurugi mixup after a whiffed sLP or some real crazy maniac manuevers like land into ex oroshi regardless of which wakeup they did. At around 19 or 20 frames a second sLP will start to connect and after that you can OS off the first sLP into other moves…but it seemed like it was in the 10f or less range anyway from watching the streams.
11 frames is the number I’ve been hearing.