this thread needs to be stickied
cr LK to st LP is godlike
bumpin on UUHuuup…
c.lk to c.mp has been pretty good to me as an anti crouch tech frame trap, because you can do it even if you’re semi far away. usually you want to do c.lk close s.hp to kill delayed crouch teching but sometimes because you’re too far, you get the far s.hp instead, which can work too but sometimes even delayed crouch tech will counterhit it since its startup is so bad. so instead, if you’re afraid of that, c.lk, delay slightly then c.mp can get crouch teching at a range.
The neat thing about counterhit close fierce is that there’s enough time to hit confirm the counterhit just on its own. So, for those of you who like to do the (c.lp, CH cl.hp) or the (c.lk, CH cl.hp) frame trap:
CH cl.hp, cr.mk (3f) xx hk scissors xx super does 484 damage/430 stun
CH cl.hp, cr.mp (1f) xx hk scissors xx super does 499 damage/430 stun
Totally hit-confirmable, and kinda easy if you plink it. Basically Bison’s biggest punish for someone trying to tech your throws. A bunch of you probably knew this already, but I actually didn’t find it in any of the stickies.
Ok, I’m gonna try and consolidate all the data in this thread once I get home from class since I didn’t do it the last time I said I would. 
Hmmm I used to do the first one, but I changed it to lk xx lk scissors just to be safer (not really confident with my execution).
If you get a jump in, I like to do
J. fp, st. fp, cr. lk xx lk scissors.
J. fp -> st. fp has a 7 frame gap that can beat crouch techers. I think it only beats non-super-late-tech timing unless you delay the fierce. (EDIT: For reference, cr. lk -> cl. st. fp is an 8 frame gap).
St. fp -> cr. lk also seems to be a frame trap on block.
This obviously loses to mash DP since it’s a frame trap, but I think you can start mixing it up with throws or going immediately into j. fp, cr. lk/mk xx lk scissors.
It’s also useful against Shotos since j. fp jumpin off of a knockdown is pretty close to being safe.
Ok, I’ve edited the first post a bit, and compiled a few of the Frame Traps that have been posted up. It’s still a WIP, and it’s subject to change. Please give any input you can and share any of your findings pertaining to Frame Traps in this thread.
[media=youtube]NblRFnrEB3o#t=01m30s]YouTube - ?? lsy9983 [Bison] vs hageshii jeng [Fei[/media]
Isy goes for a c.LK cs.MK c.LK trap. Personally I’ve never seen this before. It’s interesting for a few reasons:
- cs.MK is 1f faster and only does 10dmg less than cs.HP
- cs.MK leaves you at +2 on block, cs.HP leaves you at -1
- CH cs.MK leaves you at +8 and 112dmg, vs cs.HP +7 and 125dmg
So you’re sacrificing a little bit of damage for a much safer trap.
Seems to be far superior on paper. You might not be able to cancel cs.forward into scissors, but making the link to cr.strong 1 frame easier from a CH is well worth it imo. CH cs.forward -> cr.strong -> RH SK would do 300+ damage if I did the math right. Pretty sick damage for a single trap.
And if they end up blocking the cs.forward you can use another frame trap - sounds like a done deal to me.
Anyone know if the close standing moves have different ranges? Or is the “close” range the same for all moves like that?
You can crouch tech in ST/3S etc
I like cr. mp, st lk. People always try to press buttons after cr. mp.
Why not do cr. lk, cs mk, cr. mk xx scissors? That way you can hit confirm into RH scissors or if you don’t get the counterhit, you can safely frame trap into cr. mk, which should trade with even 3 frame moves (and beat slower moves). The negative is that it won’t beat late-techers, but it’s far safer and you’ll be using the same option following the frame trap (cr. mk) which can either be cancelled safely or hit confirmed into bigger damage.
After cr.mp I st.mk stole the from Neurosis.
Old discussion, but yeah it’s easy to tech in ST. Difference is you always take at least half damage and holds are guaranteed damage.
You can crouch tech in 3S as well, but throws have a 2 frame startup instead of 3 and the tech window is way smaller. Also, crouch tech attempts are much easier to punish.
So it’s really not the same level of dumb as SF4.
If you wanna talk about a game with really shitty throws though, I guess you’d have to point to CvS2 (they’re slower than jabs) although there’s a guard meter to break things open if someone is turtling.
I like cr.lk->cr.mp->cr.mp->ender
1f smaller than cr.lk->cl.hp
deals almost 300 damage
gives enough charge time
has enough visual confirmation to decide Psycho LP/HP or Scissors LK/HK
Crouch LK is good as starter because of its small pushback
Crouch MP has good reach, frame advantage, damage.
Crouch MK has small reach
Close MK deals too much pushback
Close HP is -1 on block
SF4 has late crouch teching cuz the window is larger yeah.
Has anyone made a video on Bison’s frame traps?
Not yet, but I’ve got nothing to do. Expect one soonish? :3
FEEL the problem is mainly happen when other player just dead blocking and not doing any tech, or by just mashing SRK, both can ruin the frame trap setup.
I like to throw them first and make them think I gonna throw again, not doing the trap from start since they have NO clue why you do that first hand because they just don’t feel being tick throw before, or they have the plan such as late tech etc, but most of time I play Throw-success-add trap, Throw-fail-scissor mix with throw until success, and loop.
if character you against have common grab, they gonna wait if you dash or jump, so I prefer success throw/or just failed attempt on them and bait for common grab then doing tic then see what they react, if they tech properly then I go for trap if not I stay hell away since who know what an masher of common grap gonna give me? I was eating full ultra 2 from Honda for that reason.
and if they have reversal, or ex, I try at least bait one for punish, to let them know I can and I will, and do the throw until hit, then move on to the trap, because most of time I remember if you can’t punish their move/reversal, most people keep doing it until you block, not until you punish few whiff srk they consider stop.
If they don’t stop certain move, I chose escape and see how often he throw out, like cheap jump back and forth shoto?
yeah they need to cool down so stay away from them…punish few jump-in then keep going, worst is whiff, and if they jump high you can catch them while they land, for j.mpx2 into ultra set up.
note gief/honda/abel/t.hawk not work with some anti-air option, because really good player will try to trade with bison when they jump in, as gief trading with bison is still on his side, so mostly he will keep jump in until score an knock down then doing his OS crap like DJ vortex, chun footsie, akuma vortex BS etc etc, they not doing any serious combo but just keep jumping until hit an knock down or something they can combo with, because most people know jump in give dic trouble…
I do c.lp s.lp s.fp, I feel st.fp is so god-like if they hit or blocked, yes it come out slow, yes it must be close, and YESSSS is not working all the time!
st.fp can xx into cr.lk and you can walk up to it for any late tech hobbyist, or just do a teleport if you feel that EX reversal is coming, I was lucky that catch guile doing ultra 2 after st.hp into teleport…you never know sometime being totally pointless can save your ass.
any suggestion? or someone help to solve my totally bull crap idea?
BTW trap rarely work on chun, I was able get some far st.fierce punch and that is about it, never an close one.
Chun li,Master Asia, her footsie are god like, with projectile and speed her anti air was lot better than bison (still not that good but better) and omg some of her combo are so deadly and fast to come, for just punish? I saw so much footsie punish by chun li if she just block one of your normal and you know you are fk.
don’t try this on chun I think, I rather chip her and wait for those thigh, by risking your dic when chun got super/3 EX BAR is very brave but not worth it if you are not certain…
anyway I was never certain.