Have you actually played at the location test and these are your conclusions?
Next weekend there will be a location test here. These are long time wishes I had.
Hahah… lovely. Vega and Guile can link jabs into ultra (although very hard to do), Vega also getting 0 on blocked mid rolling attack thing…
and what do we get ? 3 nerfs one of them Is HUGE (probably it is the one nerf that has the most impact on a character on USF4)and small buffs 3 of them , supposed buffs, are useless and only one buff,St.mp, is worth while but it is nothing compared to other characters buffs.
Thanks god the changes are still not final.
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The range requirement is much better than cr.mk. I think something got to do with the hit animation of characters. It rarely whiff on Ryu from what I have seen so far in Kingbalcktoof Bison mod. However cr.mp need to have less push back on block and hit(or just on hit) in my opinion.
I wholeheartedly agree with you on this one.
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The ones on bold are unnecessary, given how the current game is and what other characters have. I mean Bison needs to build meter with devils reverse and reducing the damage even though it is punishable on block is unnecessary. We should not be too humble on what Bison needs, apparently , they don’t accept thoughtful changes. Just look at other characters changes, Guile can link standing jab into Ultra 1 now (it very hard but he can do it).
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Don’t get over it yet, Zangief and grabbers can Ultra you, Bison already struggle against them as it is. The nerf is big.
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Cr.Hp beats and trade more often now when reacted against Ryu jumb ins, it is good now but nothing special , I think the start-up need to be reduced by one extra frame (or 2 ) and/or hitbox improvement to make it not too borne to trade. I will test it a bit more to see how viable it is.
I hope so, everything in USF4 is still subject to change and that what I am holding on into, for Bison sake.
I would honestly trade a linkable sMP for 0 on block SK. Or maybe if we beg Capcom enough, they will give us both? Its not like Bison would be overpowered if he had both a linkable sMP and a 0 on block SK.
The s.mp buff is a good idea.
But I still don’t know how I feel about c.hp having less frames. I think buffing hell attack would have been cooler and would have gone more with the characters flow. Also, his air moves still suck. And in addition to making Bison a viable tournament level character that is on par with everyone else (a lofty goal by Capcom), we of the Bison community, want to have more fun with the character. We want more versatility of moves. Sure we don’t like being able to be jumped at from mid distance for free (where hell attack starts to suck), but I bet most here want those other moves to work better than get an AA.
More importantly, that -1 on block for lk.sk is BS!!! Everyone knows it, we have to preassure CAPCOM in true Bison spirit to prevent that nerf from going in the game. I’m going to be going to an event possibly this weekend which has play feedback and testing for Ultra, so maybe I will get a chance to chat with Combo fiend and make an impact using reason.
I still want to see Bison with more buffs like buffed j.MP priority to say the least.
At 8:53 it looks like EX Psycho no longer absorbs a projectile. EX Psycho was beat out clean by a high tiger shot.
It was always like that with high tiger shot.
A good anti-air is needed in my opinion. His ground game is like a fireball game without an anti-air, what stops you from jumping all the time ?
perhaps it is a far fetched example, but he need a consistent way to keep the fight on the ground without the need to guess.
Hi guys … I was able to test the old USF4 build in Sweden @ Dreamhack and want to share my impression and feelings about the new Bison.
First of all I think it is not so bad as we all have been theory fighting. I spoke with Dwagtanian about the current build and he mentioned that they have already changed back a lot of OP changes (like chun lis new jump timinig and the 5 f Vega Ultra) …
Changelog:
10 frame cr.hp --> I was absoluteyl surprised how good it is now actually, I was able to consistently AA ryus jump in HP/HK and scored also some counter hits … So I would say it is not Guile cr.hp level but viable and it scores 110 damage … good buff
-1 frame SK --> Well … this hurts but it is only really bad if you do very close SK pressure … it is not that braindead anymore … and I think it is fine.
+5 frame Teleport --> In combination with delayed wake up it is fine to nerf this a bit … but what I dont understand is why also the forward teleport got this … ? All the forward Teleports should stay the same. It is a nerf to his wake up game (which will be even stronger with delayed wake up) and is better than losing invincibility of HS or DR!
DR EX followup faster --> Honestly … it is faster and is ok … but I dont think that it will change a lot … needs further testing. I think it is necessary to give it a better hitbox and it should not be FA backdashable.
HS startup --> Feels ok … not a big deal overall … if they would also buff Skull Diver it would be better. Good to have … not a gamechanger.
SK +10 Damage --> Totally strange … Well … I like it BUT … now PC is even more useless as a combo ender and imho it would be better to have the damage buff on the first hit (for FADC combos).
st.MP buff --> Solid buff and very good to have … unfortunately the range is not so reliable and some of the combos that would be awesome dont work at all ranges (like cr.mp > st.mp OR st.hp >st.lk>st.mp) … and it also does not have a good hitbox to AA dive kicks into PC cancel. Overall it is good and I like it … if it would have just a bit more range it would be great !!! What I also dont like is that the new B&B are now 1 frame links … but this is my personal opinion.
Ultra 2 40f charge time --> Nice to have … you can basically jump and go directly into Ultra … but 2-4 frames less start up would be better … or just give him a motion Ultra … we will see what tech comes up with the new charge time … sorry … was not able to test it in detail.
I still think that Bison needs some small buffs on other moves … like on SD or PC … or maybe some of the frame data … but I am not super concerned that he will be crap.
Just food for thought. If they nerfed Bison’s teleport because of delayed wakeup, why is akuma’s teleport intact?
as far as the new faster charging ultra. I wonder if you would have time to get a focus crumple dash forward charge for 40f and then be able to land the ultra, before they fall down.
I assume with the faster charging ultra 2 you are going to see the 50/50 knock em down and the do ultra 2 tactic a lot. that is the technical term btw.
Guys have you checked the USF4 stream ? Combofiend said in the commentary that every character will get what it needs to be tournament viable that why they give Ken all these mad buffs. Apparently , what Bison need to be tournament viable is 1-LK because it was so good and lead to big things, it also allow ultra to be connected on the corner.
all joking aside, I still have hope they will revert back the nerfs and give Bison more fixes (ExPC should fully connect after hell attack, 200 to all PC, less pushback on cr,mp and improved ultras and that things we wanted for years)
I may be overreacting (I am really annoyed), but look at what everyone got and you will understand my point.
Yeah it is good, I tested it in Kingblacktoof mod and it is nice to have, although after spending some time with it in training mode, I still think it needs a slight hitbox improvement or/and have start-up reduced by 1 or 2 extra frames.
It is just annoying that even with the introduction of red focus they will still do this unnecessary nerf to the one move considered as the center point of his design. It just not cool , they didn’t give him anything that change his game plan to justify it being nerfed, it didn’t lead to anything big and it is not + and leads to ultra… However, I still have hope that they will revert it back.
Bison got 8 wake up options !!! Akuma got 5 … And he got Tons of Nerfs … And low life … O.o
This should work already ! Ultra 2 50/50 are useless when someone has an invincible move !
It is definetly not the final build !
Most of Bison’s wakeup options are runaway. He’s not meant to counterattack. His reversals are not meant to do damage and create momentum. It’s not a DP, it’s a longstartup fullscreen move. Every reversal he has works like this. That said, he has:
1 - backdash, 2 - ex psycho, 3 - ex scissors, 4 - devil reverse, 5 - ex devil reverse, 6 - ex headpress, 7 - teleport and 8 - ultra.
If you notice, all of them are meant to escape. Sometimes… Ultra and EX Scissors are usable. EX Psycho can also be used to counterattack in some situations.
Akuma has Shoryuken, backdash, teleport and ultra. His Ultra is actually safer than Bison’s, can counterattack, deals more damage and grants momentum. His dp is a counterattack. Avoids safejumps and can be fadc’d into safe situations. If it his, Akuma gains momentum. His teleport is the ultimate runaway tool in the game.
Now, if you analyze better than saying just numbers, you’ll figure out Akuma, along with Seth (which is not the case here), has a much better defensive/wakeup/runaway game than the rest of the cast, because they cover every situation and cover them very well. Akuma’s teleport is worth many of Bison’s options and remember it’s meter free.
About the life values… well, they have a price. He lost 150 HP (comparing to 1000), but he got high damage potential, good defenses, fast walkspeed, very good footsies, zoning, pressure and runaway. He lost the ability to vortex easily, but still has everything else. Saying “850 hp” just for the sake of giving excuses leads nowhere. He had 850 hp in Vanilla too and it meant absolutely nothing back then.
Considering I have done a backdash (which takes longer to complete than a forward dash) into U2 on a crumple many a time before. You can do it on a forward dash as well its just harder (for the record I have done it on forward dash too, not as often but it can be done).
Daaadom3 basically confirmed all my fears tbh lol. especially about the useless U2 “buff” all it is good for is making a few unlikely situations easier to combo into on the miracle you hit with them.
I do wonder if they buffed the hitbox on cr.hp though. Doesn’t sound like people are trading as much.
I noticed in the stream that Combo experienced two common Bison issues I hope he addresses:
- He attempted to perform U2 and instead teleported right next to Sagat and with that nice extra 5 frame delay got crushed
- He attempted to follow up a 2 hit hell attack with U2 and completely whiffed
Is twitchtv crapping out for anyone else? The video stutters out of sync with the audio.
And all of them can be OSed easily with jabs and shorts.
Nevermind, can’t read.
• M Bison’s LK Scissor Kick nerf doesn’t feel as bad as many may think. Can still apply pressure effectively.
sounds like a case is building to keep the nerf.
lawl
the absolute best case scenario is that it takes people a couple months before they realize the magnitude of this nerf and how easy it will be to completely reverse pressure. there is no bison pressure with this nerf intact. whoever said “can still apply pressure effectively” is a flat out moron and is probably playing against bison like they are in ae2012 and not how they should be playing against bison in usf4.
oh and amongst everything else in that list
• Ken’s crouching Heavy Kick is unpunishable on block.
LAWL
because being -6 was too unsafe i guess