well, 3 more damage from every blocked Scissors and 10 more damage from every successful scissors + 110 damage from antiairs make quite the difference in the end.
Bison low tier?
Yeah I think this analysis is pretty solid, and I have found it to be true in my experience. He ca’t be abused anymore from the air, which again is a plus. But now everyone just plays the lame out game completely, and they work to stall time so you can’t just rush them. They delay getting to the corner. One mistake and they jump over you and reset.
So I’m with you that the reduction of s.mp pretty much killed the damage buff. He is still facing the problem of doing 60-80 and little chip bitch hits, with bob combos few and far between and still risky.
The problem I am having is hit confirming S.mp. you really have to react fast. And the ultra links, aside from the deep jumping fierce are just to damn hard to be practical.
I agree that overall his damage output is still a big problem.
He needs more damage because he is the one taking the risk and going in. He doesn’t have a defensive game plan, so he needs high reward, or at least equal to his defensive opponents.
I find it true, too.
In just one sentence: I ever feel like I have to work a lot to get advantage in a fight, but for the opponent… he just have to have two ex stocks, make me guess wrong once and it’s game over.
New combo to mess around with. Against cornered opponent, if you hit opponent with EX.Headpress air to air at apex of opponents jump you can combo EX.Skull Diver to Ultra one. 606 damage and 651 on counterhit.
wow
now that’s something I’m interested in!
Headpress EX is my favorite Bison move. Pure stomping damage.
I know about that one. Generaluke told me the other day on Facebook about that shit. I have yet to pull it off though lol I think I keep doing it late. The timing is so ingrained in me that it is hard to break conditioning.
That’s not exactly new, I’ve seen it in a video before, thats where I learned it from. The weakness is that you have to be RIGHT NEXT to the opponent when you do EX headpress, and they have to jump at the same time. That is to say, you cant do lk-scissor on their block, then get them with headpress. Has to be far too close to them. Does do a but-tonne of damage though
i get the situation quite a lot
Me too, I just forget to use it.
Overall my conclusion keeps growing to the idea that Bison, although less frustrating to play with, is still not really a good choice competitively speaking.
I could be wrong here, and maybe I am just not putting enough value on U1 10 frame startup, but overall this seems to be the situation.
Players know not to jump at Bison for free anymore, so those shenanigans are done with basically. This much is cool.
At which point everyone just lames Bison out now. bison is forced to deal pitiful damage still while everyone else can reverse his pressure or apply their own and get far greater reward. His damage output is still a problem. And for that reason I think he is probably a mid tier character.
His improvements, while they addressed some issues that should have never been in the game, like the lack of AA, just don’t correct the character’s main weakness which is lack of damage given his horrible move list.
He lacks heavy damage, although it has been improved, and a scumbag factor. Even Bore Long has something really cheap and he has the same pressure/footsie game as Bison.
He’s also very linear.
Already abandoned Bison. Only use him if I know I can maul someone with him, or the stream asks. Been trying T. Hawk, Sakura and Evil Ryu. I have an above average Ken but I don’t really wanna main him, and not feeling to go back to Cammy right now. Might try Dudley today, I can already do his BnBs (In before online drop). Or I should just tier whore and go back to Yun… His only bad matchups are Gief/Hawk? Bison does fine against them. He goes 5-5 with Rog, and so does Bison although I hate that match.
After EVO I’m gonna take a long look at Juri. Bison is great for smashing low to mid level players, but really struggles against people that know what’s up.
Yeah, one thing that adding the AA, and all that stuff is good for is that it isolates the problem and makes it obvious now. If you notice although Capcom fixed the AA issues for the most part as of now, they never actually mentioned them as being a main issue. I think they just sort of saw that it was a problem and fixed it, but then acknowledged that the damage issue was the MAIN problem. But then they give us a half ass solution that doesn’t solve the problem. Really this is just absurd how he is being F#$k’d time and time again.
It’s not so much that he’s being f***ed, I think its that Bison’s issues aren’t fully understood. Some people would think that given his good range and mobility that giving him damage would be too unfair. People don’t understand that that he has plenty of weaknesses aside from his damage - he is a flawed character but many people don’t recognize it (at least, not the low and mid level players - which is a majority of fighting game players).
Yeah, I agree with that. But I winder if Capcom even understands it. I hope next game they give us a solid straight up character where everything works!! This is such BS man. all I want is to have that feeling, because I have the irrefutable knowledge, of exactly why it is, that if I lose it is because I could have done X, Y, Z strategies. That it was merely my own mistake in not making the right read or executing the wrong strategy, because I misunderstood the other player. Not because I lacked the tools to do the job. It is the feeling of knowing that the tools are lacking that has me frustrated. But I shouldn’t have to drop my character, or just stop playing a game I have loved for decades. This shit bullshit man.
Been playing with Sakura, but she’s seen as bad now and not much comeback potential?
Comeback potential? People should play Bison… I’m kinda new to Dudley so I was playing the neutral like Bison, fishing for counter poking/whiffs, then going ham. Difference is, Dudley can deal real damage… but that’s always been the case even when he was a lot lower than Bison. Decent AAs too. Ken is good and Blanka is actually solid now, but I don’t really wanna main them, even though I’ve used Ken for about 3+ years, and Blanka for almost 2. I keep switching back to Dictator even though I hate him, especially when the game is laggy or people do gimmicky stuff non stop.
Here I was trying out bison, getting as much info as I could on him and getting excited that I found another character that I can see myself playing… and then I come here and everyone seems to hate him. Discouraging lol
Is he really that frustrating to play?
LOL you’re the guy from the other thread right?
He’s hella frustrating at high level. Then again, I find against top players I tend to play a lot more defensive than usual. Unless I’m against someone Bison steam rolls + Vega.
Even the low tiers seem less frustrating than Bison, cause they got cheap ass tech.