Yeah he can be very frustrating to play. At this stage of the game he is better off overall in my view in terms of frustration level. His crippling factor though is his horrible damage output at high level. If you ever use Bison in a tournament there is no way to play safe with him and apply pressure and do decent damage. Bison has been structured to be a pressure and footsie character. The counter to Bison is to simply play defensive and rush him when he cannot defend. Playing defensive in certain ways neutralizes much of the potential for damage he could have. Once this occurs, he is limited to doing 80-100 damage a clip but not anything consistent beyond that. At this level the situations where she applies his pressure, if his opponents apply come counter, it will usually be in the form of combo that deals more damage than Bison can inflict, and they are fighting just as safe as Bison situated in the context Bison pressure. It is important to understand that the defensive posture taken against Bison forces him to be limited in his low damage options. At which point if he is countered he takes more damage than he dishes out. THAT’S the problem!! And there simply isn’t any answer for this.
In other news I was thinking of how to give Bison some more damage but also solve the problem of hit confirming standing MP. If S.MP became a double hit, the second hit could be the extra damage that was taken from it. This would give him more damage, break down regular focus attacks (which would stop people from abusing them at will during Bison lame out sessions) and more importantly, allow him to hit confirm the s.mp into a HK SK instead of lk SK. Due to the low damage of s.mp I’m sure none of you guys go for it as a normal to SK on a punish situation. But throwing it out there as part of pressure would work great if it was two hits. Then you could chose to go lk or hk versions of SK or PC.
I think also the hit box (NOT the HURT BOX) needs a slight extension. Not much, but just enough so it doesn’t whiff during the pressure game. I think if they did that, cleaned up his links a bit, added a bit of damage on his other normals, he would be alright.
The problem is that Bison isn’t supposed to be a combo centric character so it’s stupid that they nerf his pokes!!! It’s like cutting a dudes nut sack off and then expecting him to father a liter!!
I mean Bison is still an okay character, but I think it’s just the way the character was designed that limits his success in tournaments. Also, being a charge character is a bit of a limiting factor. I don’t think there are any charge characters than consistently do well in every major tournament. Well maybe except PR Balrog occasionally. I guess it’s as his name suggests - if he isn’t dictating/controlling the whole match, Bison probably isn’t going to win the round.
Oh I agree, the engine of this game is just not for charge characters. It limits him by design. But then they go and make more than half his moves mediocre to ass. Then if that isn’t bad enough, they keep reducing his damage, pressure, and footsies which are the only things he has going for him.
All they have really done is prevent him from being totally abused now, which is of course, not a bad thing.
the only reason PR rog does well is because Rog can link into Ultra. Think about it, if you took that away, even with rog’s solid normals, would he really be a threat? I don’t think so. Rog is U1 dependant. It’s the reason why no one will pick U2 with rog no matter how many times they were to buff it. He just needs that add on damage. It’s what makes the character or breaks him.
What we really need is a whole other game engine, one that doesn’t punish charge characters.
I don’t think the game engine hurts charge characters at all, I think the problem is that capcom don’t know how to handle them.
Look at guile in super, he was one of the best characters in the game despite being a charge character. Some would even say he’s up there with the best iterations of characters that the series has ever seen (AE yun, vanilla sagat etc) or at least close to them. Capcom just don’t seem to recognise how each individual charge character is supposed to play, and therefore they don’t get buffed in the right areas. Bison himself is a great example. You guys say his low damage is an issue and from playing against bisons for years I can understand that, so why the hell would they nerf the damage on far st.mp? I get that it is now cancellable, but was the damage nerf really necessary? Would it have been too good if it did 90 damage and was cancellable? Lol no.
The same change process applies to dee jay, he got buffs but nerfs too. The buffs that these characters got were nowhere near strong enough to warrant nerfs too.
My favourite example of capcom’s balance incompetence is my own main. I can’t sit here with a straight face and seriously tell you that yun deserved buffs.
Yeah I agree with the distinction you make. Guile was good. But he was good also because he was structured to be defensive as a base setup and not dependent on offense. The problem with bison is that he can’t get by on his offense. It’s just not good enough. Very linear, very repetitive. You have to be really creative to play with bison princely because he is so braindead.
His issues I think can be distilled down to two primary distinctions in the damage department. First is his low output with the moves he has. Capcom doens’t want to revert him to Vanilla s.hk and such because that would make him to “braindead.” Well for the love of God, if you aren’t going to improve what the character has for damage opportunities, then you need to give me more opportunities to do and open up damage.
Did they change something on Bison’s Forward Jumping MK?
After I knocked down Ryu, his Cr. HP attacking the wrong direction somehow hit Bison who was being him and was going to hit him with his MK.
Same thing for Evil Ryu’s LP Shoryuken. I knocked him down and jumped over him knowing he will do a wake-up shoryuken. His LP shoryuken somehow hit Bison who was behind him.
Also the same situation happened with a cornered Decapre (don’t know if it work mid-screen). Knocked her down and jumped over her because I knew she will do her DP. Her DP attacked the wrong direction and still somehow hit Bison who was behind her.
Did they made his Forward Jumping MK’s hurtbox bigger?
But see that’s not true. Bison could be made to be like he is in other games and be aggressive. They would simply have to buff his special moves to the point where they are a threat. That way he would be a beast like he is supposed to be. I don’t know why it’s so hard for them to fix it.
Is there a reason to use U2 anymore? I think it’s no doubt the worst anti fireball Ultra in the entire game. While Rolento has an 8f 480 damage anti fireball full invincibility Ultra. Why? He already has like infinite tools to deal with fireball lol. I only pick U2 against Ibuki now, it’s good against her vortex.
Scissors lk -1, teleport recovery increased, reduction on EX PC damage and U2 damage nerf. Seriously why was this necessary?
So who would you guys think is a good new character for a Bison player? I’ve been trying Guile but i wanted to climb in the tier list, not stay at the same level.
I don’t think charge characters are boring unless it’s a mirror match, unless that’s what he means? If charge characters were good more people would pick them and as a consequence there would be more boring mirror matches.
In any case I’d rather watch a guile/vega/bison over ryu, the most one dimensional, boring, and generic character in the game. I know he switched to e.ryu but that point still stands. There are tons of good boring characters anyway, like rose. Try and find people who say rose is fun to watch/play (you won’t be able to) yet she’s capable of performing well at high level play.
People can never make up their minds. A vega was kicked in an endless lobby I was in because the host found the matches boring but he also kicked me 10 minutes later and when I messaged him about it he replied with “yun zzzzzzzzz”.
Two completely different styles of play, one has to play more defensive and the other is hyper offense. It makes no sense to find both of these boring because then what do you find entertaining? If it’s not defense or offense then wtf is it? At the end of the day people will call characters boring if the don’t play the way that person wants them to.
tl;dr Boring is subjective. A lot of people find charge characters interesting and entertaining because they don’t rely on gimmicks.
Its because stream monsters and most people in the audience have no attention span. If one player isn’t blowing the other up in short order they get bored.
Yet we can’t have them do damage either or scrubs start whining. Why do you think Bison’s st.hk is in the state its in? Because people keep walking face first into it. Why do you think st.mp got its damage neutered? Because it’ll become the new st.mk (I heard that complaint before ultra came out, I would not be surprised if that was the reason) and scrubs hate the fact that it could lead into damage with charge.
He means buffing charge characters would make every match boring. Cause they would just down back, do a random move, and turtle once it connects. I’m sure he was firing shots at Rog players anyway.
Speaking of j.mk, what’s the typical combo after a cross up j.mk? This is my first charge character so I’m having a little trouble with having to re charge when you do the cross up. I guess the combos I try are too short because I can’t get the SK to come out all the time. I have to slow the combo down in order to get the charge, risking a dropped link. I was trying cross up j.mk, cr.lp, cr.lp, c.lk xx SK
Try j.MK, c.LP, s.LK, (Far MP or c.MK) xx scissors. On some characters the c.MK won’t connect so you need to use the far MP.
Does anyone use EX PC autocorrect against crossups? I have a friend who just jab, jab and cross me up everytime in a position i can’t do much. Been in the lab and it seems a late autocorrect ex PC might help but i was wondering if this is reliable in matches.
That’s weird, I been playing Bison since SSFIV and it only in USFIV that Ryu’s/E. Ryu’s DP & Cr. HP in the wrong direction managed to hit me when I went for a cross-up with his J. MK. I can understand Decapre because she is new but Ryu & Evil Ryu never did that to me before USFIV.