Good stuff. It’s too bad far MP isn’t very reliable. At least point blank range cr.MP - far MP should work on everyone. It’d be a great frametrap.
3 Frame start up on st.lk would solve so much problems from Bison (still). Maybe this poke would be a bit too strong … but … don’t care … it would make cr.lk > st.lk and close.hp > st.lk sooooooooo much more reliable and make st.mp really useful.
Other way --> make close.HP +5 on hit and/or cr.mp +7 on hit.
st.mp is nice as a whiff punish and far cancel move … but it does not really add damage to bisons combos … yes it does solve more or less the problem with reliable combos … but … it is still a 1 frame link … and cr.lp,close.lp,cr.mp,st.mp … are two 1 frame links …
I don’t blame you bro. Its hard to stick with Bison. Its riskier than ever now. I won’t go in detail because you know what the deal is. Its just overall harder to win with him now and its become more of a chore than ever. But I digress. Its good to pocket other characters who actually have options and are just overall less stressful to use. It literally feels like work using Bison. But hey it is what it is. Sorry for the rant everyone.
I don’t know. I actually feel like I have more tools and some people I play against say the see Bison stronger. Yeah, I can’t teleport anymore, but even back in the days of AE I stopped doing that already.
Yeah he does have his moments sure enough. And he does have a few more tools like being able to go high and low now in block strings with the addition of special cancellable st MP; It just seems that he trades more than ever now and even with the buff to EX Scissors projectile invincibility I’ve been having it get beat clean by normals and trading like crazy lately. It wasn’t like that in AE. I HOPE its all just me but I think I shook off enough rust to notice this stuff now.
I still have uses for Bison: Perfect every Rufus.
kthx
For me he pretty much feels the exact same. -1 on scissor kicks hasn’t make scissor kick pressure too much harder (it isn’t the same but it’s still very do-able) and although st.mp is cancellable, the damage nerf on that makes Bison’s overall damage output the same as it was before
I just want my 1-hitbox st.hk back…
EX Scissors is projectile invulnerable, not strike invulnerable while it’s active. The hitbox hasn’t been modified. It’s not supposed to beat normals. Never was. These placebo nerfs…
People around me have been saying Bison feels better. Probably nerfs to other matchups + EX Scissors + Cr.HP mostly. As for me, I feel I’m playing a more solid character now and just a tiny bit stronger (damagewise) too.
“Placebo Nerfs” HAHA. I’ll keep that for future reference when someone rants about some nerfs.
For me, some of the nerfs have forced me to learn to play better. Like I mentioned before with the teleport. Or the -1 on lk SK, which forced me to add some variety to my corner pressure. I noticed that because of that variety, people is afraid to press buttons because they are not really sure about what I’m going to try after a SK.
Also, I’ve been connecting Nightmare Boosters like crazy lately. Thats the power of 2 less frames on startup.
May be me, may be the people I’m playing, but I feel he’s a better character overall.
Placebo buffs? haha.
Scissors kicking a grappler, complain about - 1. Moving along.
Let’s face it. You didn’t punish the ex lariat, which is easily punishable. If he wanted to mash Ultra, he’d have eaten your light kick before you even scissors’d.
Yea you didnt punish his EX lariat, it has horrible recovery time. Point goes to the Hugo player.
Plus, you got lucky with that fullscreen EX PC…
Yeah I have had the same experience. It feels like more of a grind. But I was thinking about this and here is my theory based on the observations and comparison in my head with what everyone else did against Bison prior to Ultra.
Prior to Ultra to fight Bison you would switch between one of three methods. 1. jump at him when the time was right or neutral jump, because Bison could basically be abused from the air because of the holes in his AA game. 2. run away from him because this neutralizes much of his attacks and forces him to slow his roll or walk right into focus attacks, normals, specials, or whatever mindless traps people have in mind. 3. reverse Bison;s pressure at the right moments because the damage is in the opponents favor, not Bison, and Bison’s pressure brings the opportunities for reversing said pressure.
With that in mind 1. doesn’t really exist anymore and people know it. They won’t jump because they see that c.hp will either beat clean or trade, hell attack deals good damage now with the PC connection, plus Ultra, which was always the case, HS is faster so it can be used as an AA better now, and of course U1 can AA. So jumping against Bison is basically suicide for the most part, and you REALLY have to work to get in on him now if the Bison knows what they are doing.
With that said, that leaves 2. and 3. I think that 2 and 3 pretty much still exist. Bison has AA options that can deal big damage, but the fact is people just don’t need to play him by jumping at him or rushing him. The way you fight Bison is run away, by holding your ground and laming him out. This forces Bison to be patient and work for everything he’s got. This is not a problem that Ultra created. It is a problem that was INHERENT since Vanilla. I have said the for years, and when you think about it, we all know what I’m talking about here.
the match drags on now because given that players won’t really jump much you have to work to go tit for tat with them. Plus the -1 of course makes it so you are more prone to let them escape. But I don’t think the -1 is the issue here because even if they reverted it back to 0, the same problem would exist.
I don’t have a problem with 2, because that is fair. People should be able to reverse his pressure if they guess he will attack.
With that all in mind!! Given that they did NOT fix his damage output for his combos, like Combofiend CLAIMED….the final result is that now players are basically laming out in such a way that Bison has little opportunities for damage, as he always did, and they can still do more damage once his pressure get’s going. It’s basically just not getting abused from the air anymore. This is why I have been saying that what Ultra Bison is, may not be the perfect version, but it is the better version in that they have solved one of three problems he has.
Like I said, 2 I think it fair and it would be unfair if they solved that one. Plus 2 is impossible to solve anyway so that is really irrelevant. 3 is the issue. Bison needs a bit more damage still in my view. Either that or he needs to have the -1 reverted and the teleport fixed so he can deal with the grapplers.
I was having the same feeling with Bison, this feeling of grinding it out, until I realized that this is EXACTLY what I wanted in the sense of not being able to be abused from the air (1). I still think fixing 3, will make him complete, but first we need to identify the problem.
What do you think Lance,
and others?
I agree that fixing 2 and 3 would make the match unfair. Bison needs some weaknesses. Problem 3 is not necessarily a problem with Bison though - I think this can be said for all characters. If you know what the opponent is going to do to pressure you, then you will have some kind of tool to counter it.
Bison’s mobility is great, but him being a charge character with limited ways to progress horizontally it is easy for opponents to lame him out (one of the reasons he has such a small comeback factor). His damage ass though. Other characters who can control space and keep people out do much more damage. I don’t know why capcom feels that adding 5 damage to one of his moves fixes the damage issue.
While it’s easy to beat someone in the corner with scissor kicks isn’t a problem given the speed and priority of his moves, Bison will not win easily in the neutral game given that he has to land so many hits.
For all the incredibly lengthy back and forth and speculating about how good Bison will be in USF4, he’s still middle mid tier, just like he was before. How’s that saying go? “The more things change, the more they stay the same.”
Well see, I never thought he was middle tier though. I always thought of him as low tier, maybe even high low, but not mid. He had no defense against air attacks in a game that favors vortex and is very meter dependent. He does crap damage. I don’t buy the 5/5 MU bs.
He’s mid tier NOW, perhaps, but against grapplers it’s not even right. Really the -1 should be fixed back and so should the teleport. Either that or really give us better damage. Buff the s.mp back to the damage it was before, and increase c.mk while we are at it, and make the links easier by adding a bit more stun here and there.
The Ultra juggles are really, cool but so damn hard I have yet to even pull one off.
The problem is he still doesn’t do much damage and doesn’t convert into damage well. The last minute nerf to st.mp damage pretty much killed the claim “He does damage now”. Yeah technically it does do more damage than equivalent cr.mk combos but 3-4 more damage is not anything to get excited about and most certainly not worth the one frame links unless you have to due to hurtbox oddities.
Unless they are thinking of red focus combos…even then it is once a round if that, off an actual hit confirm it is only about 100 more damage for three bars and ultra, off a direct punish it is nice though I will admit (aka st.mp to hk sk or st.cl.hp to hk sk).