yeah I get the feeling Bison teleport will get buffed in an upcoming patch, no way can they look at that and think it’s OK. It’s pretty much a guaranteed punish now, except in very extreme situations.
crmp does the job better.
btw, headpress is NOT faster. the startup is smaller, but it only means he hits on the way up. Also, LK Scissors’ pushback was not increased
I’m having a hard time combining into st mp from st lk. That’s a two frame link isn’t it? Should be easier than I’m finding it.
The headdress is definitely working better for me and doing things I KNOW it could not do before.
With respect to the SK, the pushback is increased. Compare AE 2012 Bison to Ultra Bison in training mode. I walked Ryu into the corner and put block all option on. Made sure Bison was at point black distance, then did a lk SK. Noted the exact spacing. Then compared the other version and even went back and forth to make sure I was correct. You can clearly see Ultra Bison is slightly farther then AE.
Yeah it is no where as easy as c.mk link, but I am getting better with it.
yeah they need to at least cut down the frames a bit. Even if they don’t give us what we had before, this is ridiculous. A better solution though would be to simply fix the PPP teleport distance so it has a better purpose. Many characters could already punish Bison as it was.
probably does new things, but the whole movement arc lasts the same amount of time. will test lk scissors later, but from what i played, nothing changed. did uyou perform raw meaty point blank scissors in your test?
tested. same distance
hmm, idk yeah I just did the test again and saw no difference. idk what I did, but there was a difference when I did it. Maybe the spacing I did wasn’t a point blank, and the “added pushback” is only something that comes out depending on the spacing? doesn’t make sense but who knows.
On the subject of the s.mp combo connection. I am having the same problem with linking it after a s.lk HOWEVER, it seems that doing c.lp, s.lp, s.mp, HK SK does 222 damage, which is identical to c.lp, s.lp, s.lk, c.mk, HK SK, also 222 damage.
My question is, how has his damage output gone up? It seems that what has gone up is his situations where he can do damage. In the guile MU the c.lp, s.lp, s.mp is the sure fire way to go because the c.mk will miss mostly.
I think they need to up the s.mp damage back to what it was to give him the damage.
Also, I was thinking; why can’t we have the teleport such that it behaves like Akuma’s? Currently in Ultra the teleport is basically only good as a tool to escape crossups assuming you have full or more than half screen to get away. Akuma’s teleport is different from Bison in that you can follow him IF and only IF you guess he will teleport and punish him, whereas Bison’s is punishable on reaction. Akuma can escape from cross ups just in the same way Bison does and he will be safe. Why can’t they do something similar so that back teleport actually has a use so he can escape to the other side, but if you think bison will warp out, just empty jump or stand there and when he warps jump to where he is. If the recovery frames are enough it will be slow enough to punish him but if you didn’t think he will teleport Bison will be safe because of you’re recovery frames. They can even make the warp such so it shows you where to go if he warps. This would give us what we need without making the teleport worthless or broken.
My only fear is they would then feel they have to diminish his health. The counter argument I would make is that his damage output is not as high as Akuma’s and he still does not have as many combo openings to warrant something that drastic as nerfing his health.
Overall at this point if I got the following buffs I don’t think I could ever complain ever again.
- skull diver improvement (I want to actually have more fun with this move).
- teleport/warp fix as specified above.
- perhaps add more damage on s.mp?
Other than that, and even still it is very early, I think Bison is damn good now.
I agree that the damage is roughly the same. Sure, c.mp > s.mp is possible now, but c.mp>c.mk used to do the same thing for the most part. On top of that, the extra 10 damage from SK on hit doesn’t help much after combo scaling. I’d agree in bringing back the s.mp damage to what it was an AE. Also, give us back the 1 hitbox s.hk! I would actually like to see Cl.HP link into more moves, like s.mp. That’d do some nice damage after focus attacks or jump ins
Teleport was always horrible, nerfing it was unneccesary. The idea was to make it more strategic in use so that players could punish it if predicted. It was already like that though, now it can be punished on reaction, and is essentially a useless move. Hell, its worse than useless, it actually impedes Bison players (Yeah, I screw up doing Ultra motions sometimes)
What do you mean by skull diver improvement? If you mean an improvement like in the ST days where you could cross up with it then I think that’d be a little op
What we have now is not higher output but more opportunities for damage in machups (but not much) and frame traps. S.mp is a small buff, but not huge. The biggest buffs are his AA buffs. Seriously. The Ex SK helps out allot.
Well it’s worse than that because in many cases it was already punishable on reaction, or even option select. Now it is just a joke. No need to make it like that. That is why I think they need to use Akuma as base for the concept. Although Bison warps and there is no trail, he can simply make the teleport so the spacing is the same concept. This way they can punish if they guess but bison is safe otherwise.
I mean at vert least an improvement in how fast the punch comes out and the hit box. It can be snuffed to easy. You can do things like play games and land and throw, land and normal, or even try to switch up where and when you bring out the skull diver, but there are methods that can be followed to shut down all these tactics. That makes the move technically useless.
Playing around with Bison in training mode. I find that his red focus combos arent too great - spend 3 meters and a fully stocked ultra for 200 damage, or just spend 3 meters for a combo extension for an extra 100 damage ( a regular focus cancel combo will tack on about 80 damage). One thing I do like though is EX scissors > RF > Ultra. Pretty sweet game finisher to punish a fireball - but the pushback on the first hit of scissors can make the red focus whiff. Still, may prove helpful against Guiles
I also find that regular psycho crushers are not useful anymore given the scissor kick damage buff. No need to trade damage for positioning anymore when you can get both with HK scissors
On another note, I can’t get his j.hp air to air into ultra 1 thing to work. How specific is this?
yeah, I would like to see proper full screen and half screen teleports for him. Definitely shave some frames off that recovery. I can SOMEWHAT understand them nerfing his teleport, but they most definitely went a little overboard.
c.mp>c.mk is character specific and you can’t do it unless you are stick to your opponent. I have never seen anyone use it as standart punishment. Instead cr.MP > far MP works way better
You can do cl.HP > st.LK > far MP > SK HK. Yes it’s not easy to do. But it does a lot of damage. It makes sense
st.HP > Scissors HK = 240 damage
cr.MP > Far MP > Scissors HK = 262 damage
st.HP > st.LK > Far MP > Scissors HK = 284 damage
Now you can do Psycho Crusher after Hell Attack. So Psycho Crusher is more useful than never
What do you think about redoing the teleport with Akuma in mind, so that if you know where Akuma will go you can punish him if you are ready, and the same for bison?
Does this require counter hit? I have not done this yet.
Still in AE mode since I haven’t been playing at all. 2nd in a tournament, didn’t RFC once. Didn’t take advanage of the changes until about 4 matches in. /facepalm
How are you guys training at the mo? I’m practicing the new combos a fair bit and trying to more consistently AA characters but I’m not sure what the best use of my time is now.
Spose what I’m asking is what buffs have made the most difference to how he plays in your opinion?
I don’t think people understand this game. I was watching a match I played, every time I did a SK someone said “that’s unsafe”. Even when it’s his toe hitting? Kappa
yeah, unsafe.
the Scissors is -1 at most, which is not unsafe against 99% of the whole game’s moves. When you hit with his toe (last active frame), it’s +2. Sooooo unsafe
Can be punished by Chun Super.
7-3 matchup to Chun.
Man, that link looks tight as hell, but it could prove super useful if practiced enough - the damage is awesome. I may just try to get the hang of that though. Sucks that I can’t plink the 1-frame link in this though
I haven’t noticed the chip on SK too much, but I’m really liking c.hp and U1 anti-air. I haven’t found too many situations where I can use hell attack into psycho crusher unfortunately, but the damage seems pretty nice in training mode when hp psycho crusher is used. Hate giving up position for it though.