Haters gona hate …
Counter hit on Sonic Booms made my day !
I think that with the nerfs of other characters, Bison U2 is more viable, Akuma back jump fireball nerfed, Sagat’s Tiger Shot, The good ol’ Yoga Sniper punish
I’ ve been thinking. Usually, after a blocked scissors, my friend, who plays Guile, tends to throw a sonic boom. Yes, sometimes he takes a S.HK.
With SB being CH, it may be possible to throw a random Focus Lvl 1. If it hits, will crumple.
i fear Chun Li is going to be a big problem
For Bison, maybe… Divers will still eat her alive
After five versions, it has become painfully clear that not only does no one at Capcom play Bison, they have never played Bison. I can’t believe after five fucking versions they STILL haven’t given him the ability to turn around automatically if he goes behind the opponent after Head Press hits or is blocked so Skull Diver can cross up, just like it does in every single other game Bison’s in.
There are other things that needed fixing (Scsissors Kick should be airborne MUCH sooner, for example), but that Head Press fix was really the only thing I’ve wanted since SFIV came out. I don’t particularly care about buffs/nerfs because I want Bison FIXED first. FIX him, then see if he needs buffing/nerfing. Instead I got a slightly tweaked version of the same bland 1 dimensional character he’s been since day 1.
Sadly ST Bison isn’t walking through that door for Ultra. That’s why I’m playing Poison, but I feel Bison will do well as my pocket character. Very well in fact.
I don’t even need ST Bison, per se. As I said, cross up after connected Head Press is something Bison can do in every single other game he’s in. It’s something so fundamental to the move and Bison’s modus operandi yet it’s been absent since SFIV began, seemingly for no reason other than “No one at Capcom actually plays/cares about Bison”. It would be like, I dunno, Dhalsim’s Yoga Fire not setting the opponent on fire and knocking him down or something.
Concerning alternates, if I play that game that long, I’ll probably play Hugo and Rolento. IF I can stand them, that is; I don’t like how SFIV plays that much.
I don’t really think that Skull Diver autocorrecting is even barely close to being a Bison signature.
Ultima, here’s why you can’t have a crossup mixup after every headstomp.
Headstomp is not a strong move by any means, but that’s just because we have much better options. There are however situations where you can force the opponent to block an headstomp every time, 100% guaranteed, such as after any throw, after a scissor kick, and most of the times, in the corner.
Now, if that’s the case, then why the hell do Bison players not use it in those situations? Well as I said, it’s simply because we have better options. After a scissor kick, it’s much better to dash up and keep up the pressure than wasting the opportunity for some chip and not much else. After a throw, it’s much better to go for a crossup or a safe jump. In the corner, it’s much better to stay grounded and try to prevent the opponent from escaping with scissor kicks and roundhouses.
If HS gave us a guaranteed mixup every time it’s blocked, then it means we get a mixup after each of these situations. And having a 50/50 after a random SK, a throw, hell after ANY knockdown is something not even Cammy has, you do realize it? I mean sure, she has better mixups, but at the price of mediocre footsies and general disadvantage in almost any neutral situation. The fact that her damage output and vortex OVERLY make up for it is another story, but you get what I’m saying.
TL;DR: If we got a mixup after every headstomp (hence, after any knockdown basically) we would also have to lose some of our footsies and pressure tools, turning Bison into some sort of mixup character with some weird gimmicks and unsafe SKs. And that’s something I don’t think any of us would be happy about.
I used to abuse crossup headstomp on Guy/Blanka in the corner (easier there), I actually forgot it existed since I haven’t been using Bison much.
This will depend on when armour runs out as the fastest fa1 is 22 frames. I guess armour is on entire start up? I’ve never really looked it to it.
Kriger Stern: re: auto cross up for Skull Diver
It’s been a staple property of the move across every version of SF2, every Alpha game, every Marvel game, every EX game, and every CvS game that Bison has appeared in. I’m honestly not sure about SvC Chaos, cause wow he was bad there and I never checked. SFIV series is the only series where Bison lacks this property. I’m not sure if I would label it “signature”, but it’s sure as hell fundamental to the move and the way that Bison plays classically, which is a character who is a threat from any range and can keep his opponent off balance. Take away that fundamental aspect of the move, and you get SFIV Head Press, which is pretty much useless to use 99% of the time (it has other issues too like how opponents can escape it by breathing too hard, but that’s a separate issue; I don’t know if the 2F faster start up in USFIV fixes that).
Seeing as how, again, this is something he’s been able to do in every game he’s been in, why is it now something of a problem? Especially compared to the nonsense that other characters can get away with? AND considering that without it, Bison is a totally dry and linear character? I’ve been playing him since CE (I main him in Hyper Fighting for Chrissakes!), and he’s far more dull here than in any other game where he doesn’t have a projectile.
Though I question the “force opponent to block head stomp every time, 100% guaranteed”, but even if that were an issue, they could easily tweak that - I always felt Head Press had a weirdly large hitbox in SFIV anyway, despite not being at all useful except to occasionally throw out. And it’s not as though his mixup after Head Press has ever been as hard to deal with as, say, Ibuki throwing a knife at your prone body or Akuma throwing an air FB at you. It’s always been counterable.
BTW, I’m quite used to unsafe Scissors Kicks and would gladly trade that relatively braindead (though only braindead because he has almost nothing else good to use) aspect for something better. It’s nothing that proper spacing couldn’t fix (ST Bison’s Scissors weren’t safe at all, but he still had great footsies, could pressure with Scissors, and Head Press worked properly).
Sorry, but I disagree totally with your analysis. Bison’s not good enough to warrant losing anything by having one of his moves fixed - he still has the same general weaknesses as before (low damage, poor anti-air, trouble opening certain characters up). Auto-turning around after connected Head Press is not even a buff, it’s a fix.
Okay, maybe you are willing to trade that away for a proper headstomp but I know many people wouldn’t. Just look at the panic the -1 on SK started.
And yes, I agree that Bison is not good enough to justify a non-working move but honestly, this game is very easy to break and such a drastic change might mean reworking the character completely, maybe even changing some animations.
Besides, the changes Bison got are actually very good compared to many other characters, and it seems to me like there’s no god tier right now. I’m fairly optimistic, and even though I’m not expecting Bison to be high tier, at least I expect him to be somewhat viable and not so exploitable like he is right now.
but wasn’t sMP one of the core improvements to him for awhile, and a lot of the other buff’s/nerf’s seemed scaled around that. Now they go and change it, and his overall improvements were…bad, at that point, including the sMP.
Look at characters like Blanka, Abel, and others. Already good characters, they got better. Bison was mid to high tier, and now he takes this bump.
And the best argument we got is “oh well, Adon is less beast now”.
shakes head
I agree with @Ultima
I am sorry but I must disagree with you as well @Duaie the skull diver being buffed so it actually could mixup would not make it overpowered.
After ANY knockdown is NOT a guaranteed head stomp. Only the lk SK will force you to the block. The others they can get up in time.
But with the case of the SK, simply don’t press technical and the head stomp will land and Bison will do crusher, in which case they will be forced to block, but there will be no mixup.
As for throws, while this counted in AE and prior, given DWU in ultra, it no longer applies because now Bison has to guess if he wants to use HS if it is even an option.
So NO NO and NO, this would not even be remotely overpowered to make it a mixup.
You guys wanting Bison to sit mid tier and boring got some Stockholm syndrome going on. Making all his moves useful will not break him. I originally picked up Bison in ST because he was an explosive character damage wise. He was a very exciting character to play and to watch. It’s only in the SF4 series were he is a boring defensive piece of shit. I say that with love of course, but its true. Good footsies does not make you a complete character.
SF4 Bison is easily the most boring incarnation the character has even seen. I love the character but he is so 1 dimensional in this series its laughable they would nerf his stand MP those 20 points.
Before someone says it’s only 20 points, yeah I agree so let him keep them.
What’s next? 2015 ed, Bison gets another nerf to Scissors being -2 on block? This is 2014, and it’s sad to see they haven’t made EX PC invisible from throws…
LOL!!! basically that’s where they seem to be going. I’m kind of laughing cause with the s.mp nerf, he is actually worse off in many ways than before cause his damage output is trash.
REALLY the ONLY saving grace is the fact that he can defend himself now against air attacks. That’s it…Fuck Capcom man. I feel cheated now. They took away what they gave him man, that’s so not right.
Capcom buffed most mid/low tier characters first then nerfed them to their liking, i remember Seth killian saying that’s kinda the process in an interview a few years ago (remember t.hawk’s original spd grab range?). “Buff first then gradually tweak/take away”.