Regardless of the s.MP damage reduction, it’s still more than usable for sure.
And 10f U1 is great because I’ve always wanted to punish people jumping at me with charge. Might be more inclined to work on those reactions now.
Great.
Yun not that much. I think Bison can hold his ground very well against him. Bison’s S.MP ignores his dive kicks. Bison’s works against him, plus, EXRF is a buff to both Yun AND Bison. If Yun gets stunned, he’s dead.
T.Hawk can indeed be a problem. It would be much more serious, though, if he could punish EX Psycho on block. Fortunately, he can’t. Plus, J.MP and U1 buffs might work in Bison’s favor.
T.Hawk can punish Ex.Pyscho Crusher on block with S.HK. I only discovered that recently enough.
Point blank? The new 9 frame Condor Spire might hit.
also, U1 reduces freedom against Bison’s jump-in. Some dives (which have now increased recovery) won’t be as abusable as before.
Yo what is up with the EX PC being so throwable now? I knew it could be thrown before, but that video seems like it is worse now.
For U1, do you guys think 10 frames is enough to use it as an AA now?
Should work better now for sure as AA, Ultra 1 that is. EX Crusher still being able to get thrown is such shit any move that put you in air state should not be throwable.
I knew it was throwable before, but is any MORE frames throwable now?
I think they would have disclosed that info while they released the nerf to its damage. Might be a stealth nerf but it would be pointless not to inform us.
Just saw the video, ergh… That was disgusting.
Actually, looking at it again, I think that was always there. The EX PC was always throwable, but the vid made me think that the frames it was throwable had been increased. I think it’s unchanged though. Just the damage nerd.
*- Crouching HP start-up reduced by 2 frames (12F → 10F)
- Nightmare Booster startup reduced by 2 frames (12F → 10F)*
Does anyone know how fast is 10F? Is it the same speed as Guile’s Cr. HP or the Shoto’s? I hope its give Bison a more reliable Anti-Air.
Same question for Ultra 1, does it make U1 more reliable as a Anti-air?
Well, Rose’s cr.HP is 5 frames, like Guile’s I think.
It will be more like Makoto’s cr.HK which is 9 frames.
The C.hp can be used as an AA for sure. I tried it. Trust it works.
It is probably the only real buff that actually matters. The damage output increase is a lie after the nerfed the s.mp damage. Now you get only 5 more damage as compared to using c.mk, which is allot easier to link anyway than the s.mp. So when you think about it, no one will be really using the s.mp in a combo simply because the extra 5 damage isn’t worth the chance of dropping the link.
The s.mp does however have some other uses which I discovered. when you catch someone with c.mp, even if it isn’t on counter hit you can do a s.mp pretty reliably, and that is something. Also it can be used as a poke or a follow up move during pressure or momentum and if you catch them with it you can hit confirm and do an SK or PC.
but none of that is game breaking. If they didn’t nerf the s.mp it would have mattered. But they did, so it is like they didn’t really do anything, Bison has just as crappy output as before.
So I just wish Combofiend didn’t make that video hyping us out like they actually changed something when they didn’t. Bison will be dealing the same damage in his BnB as before and now his teleport sucks completely so he is going to get rushed down and not be able to escape easy.
It really does come down to the AA and red focus. With the AA he can’t be abused anymore from the air and as a result ppl can’t just open him up for FREE like they can now. He can slap you back and hold his ground. The red focus means he can do real damage if he saves meter.
All in all its not enough to make him a strong character, but at least people wont be jumping at him for free.
I just wished they buffed some of his moves that just don’t work. If they can do it for EX messiah then why not for Bison?
Gief, Hakan and T.Hawk have perfectly viable 8 frame anti air normals. 10 frame is good for 110, very easy to pop the floaty jumps with 10f. Slightly harder for faster jumps like Adon.
Ken’s U1 and Honda’s U1 are 11f. Like Honda the biggest problem is having charge. Bison has extra invincibility after the first hit though so it works better than Honda’s in this respect.
Exogen is right, cr.hp is good. I tried it in comic-con and was surprised how reliable it was. It still trade but it beat and trade more often than it get beaten. Rolento j.hp beat it consistently though, I imagine after some time people will know what jump-in move to beat it but at least Bison now can make them think what jumping move to go to against him which will make us become creative in using Hk, hell attack.
The damage on hell attack>PC is pretty good damage. I imagine that we might get devil reverse to PC on specific situations.
I can’t stress how good Ex.SK is, It is one of the best moves in the entire game now and it deals good damage on it is own. Ultra2 is still near useless , with Ex.SK you don’t need Ultra 2 at all.Ultra 1 is clearly the better choice overall, with the start-up buff it can be used as an anti-air reliably.
Overall Bison is better, I don’t know how he is gonna compare with the other characters yet. His damage need a buff similar to Rose, that is what he truly needs right now.
Hey Guys … honestly … I don’t understand why a lot are still crying … Bison basically got only good buffs and small nerfs … overall he is really improved and by far the strongest version of Bison in SF4 history. He is now just a well balanced footsie char with solid defense and also solid pressure.
The st.mp damage reduction is not that big of a deal … st.mp is much more about the 6-frame start up / the incredible range and the special cancel … 90 damage for such a poke is just crazy.
New st.mp is great … because of:
- Reliable combos (CH combos, jump in combos, FADC combos) against the full cast
- Whiff punish !!! This baby is crazy good for whiff punish with 6-frames
- You can now combo 3xst.lk > st.mp xx special !!!
- Anti Dive kick button
- If it has +3 on hit it is also a great frame trap (don’t know if it will be +3)
- Just another great poke for Bisons very solid pokes
Damage Output:
The big problem of Bison but he got:
- st.mp (see above)
- improved hell attack followup
- RFA hit confirms into ultra
- SK damage buff
- Improve Chip damage for SKs (not confirmed from my point of view)
Only the EX-PC damage nerf is negative … but not really a big deal … common … 15 damage is nothing.
Anti-Air:
The next big issue but more or less solved with:
- new cr.hp
- new st.mp (against dive kicks)
- Faster ultra 1
Other buffs:
- EX SK fireball invincibility … this baby is huge !!!
- Improve EX DR … it looks actually reliable
- Faster HS … also looks solid
- Safer PC cross ups
- Faster Ultra 1 … 10 frames NMB is just great
- Less Charge on Ultra 2 … it is not a motion and it is not improved in start up but it will have his place in some MU and the 40f charge time is solid … it is not as strong as other anti fireball ultras but it is scary enough and you can combo into it …
Nerfs:
- SK -1 … approved to be not game breaking … just in pair with all other nerfs to safe pressure specials … fair enough
- Teleport nerf … well … it hurts … but it was also very very good … sure you can OS it but it was like a free fast super back dash … it is now only a normal super backdash … XD
- Ultra 2 damage nerf … not that big of a deal … fair trade
- EX-PC nerf … well … EX-PC is still awesome … and yes you can throw it … but Bison got enough other escape/reversal options
Overall:
There is actually no … really no reason to complain about the changes for Bison … he got better damage and better AA … a bit more utility + options (DR, HS, EX SK) and better Ultras. As a trade he got minor nerfs. DWU and RFA helps him much more than it hurts him. Deal with it … Bison is solid now … it will be no fun to play against Bison!
LK Scissors’ chip damage probably went from 22 to 25
3 DAMAGE, FUCKING STEALTH BUFFS!
Remember, Bison has no cape. You haven’t seen his final form.
hahahahaha