M.bison USF4 , any Rumors of buff/nerf changes?

[Gangryong]

the dmg nerf on st.mp is all right 90dmg for a strong is from vanilla and it being adjusted is just fair imo, the utility is still great and i think that the faster u1 might be more important than the 20dmg

[Commander]

Some st.mp situations mentioned have negative considerations as well. It’s really not all that great.

You can still use it for Cr.MP > S.MP for situations when Cr.MK doesn’t reach.

True, c.mp, st.mp can be used when c.mk doesn’t reach. That’s good and will lead to consistency on some CH combos. But in a combo without charge, you are better off doing st.mk or st.rh for length or damage. st.mp won’t provide enough charge on its own to cancel at these points and they are all 1 frame.

Better than Cr.MK for Cr.LP > Close LP > S.MP strings

I disagree with this if you are talking about block strings. c.mk has better frames that stuff 3 frame moves (crouch techs) more reliably, many of which will be low, which may interfere with st.mp’s hitbox.

It’s also better than Cr.MK after a Close HP counter hit and can still be used for character specific combos CloseHP > Standing LK > Far MP.

This will be better if you have charge, but without it st.rh does more damage.

Usable after far S.LK (Cr.MP and Cr.MK aren’t)

Not sure what you mean here. st.lk, c.mk is one of Bison’s bnbs and links into c.mk. On counterhit, maybe though.

Also, it’s a 3f link punish for Honda’s EX Headbutt.

Why not use c.mp?

On more negative notes…

If far s.mp is not +3 on hit, then it won’t have much use in the neutral game either over st.mk (which out ranges it) unless you somehow miraculously have charge while playing footsies, because it will only lead to c.mk on CH which means you have to be fairly close.

Unfortunately, far st.mp will not connect with ex red focus. So c.mp, st.mp ex rf will not work. You will have to cancel into scissors, and so have charge, to ex rf. Bison’s only normals that will connect with ex rf are st.hp and c.hp.

On a more positive note, I am interested to see if NMB being 10 frames brings any new changes rather than only ease of use. The chip thing would be nice, but I have doubts. Capcom won’t leave that in if it works (especially if it catches jumps on wakeup) as it is absolutely free damage on anyone without a teleport on their wakeup.

[Dontdodat]

I want to stay positive but Bison still received quite little in terms of improving his game. Especially when you compare him to characters like Yun who received virtually only buffs. They nerfed Scissors kick frame advantage, ex Psycho crusher, ultra 2 and now st.mp. 3 damage nerfs for Bison of all characters? Yes the damage reductions may be justified but is this it?

I’m done venting, just feel bad about the st.mp, it was looking to be hype and now it’s kind of deflated. Definitely some situations is going to mean more damage though.

Going stay positive now. If I don’t, please flame me.

[MisterFrosty]

I’m OK with a 70 damage s.MP, I still think you can use it for combos where c.mk don’t reach, and another 6 frame normal to mix with s.mk and s.hk its cool.

I wonder if it can be used as an anti-air

[SpiderCrawl]

It can against far jumps hit with the fist and it works well.

[MisterFrosty]

Swell, and at least they didn’t nerf the damage of cr.HP, 110 damage is neat, and I wonder if it is still special cancelable like some rumors said

[stabicron]

Even if it was what would be the use of that on cr.hp? Curious

[MisterFrosty]

Anti air and crossup with PC ? or maybe chip with Headstom/ bait with Devil’s Reverse, I don’t know, I would try that at least

[SoVi3t]

more proof that Ono’s village was burned down by Bison on a Tuesday.

Bison is officially dead. Stop kidding yourselves.

[Daemos]

more proof that Ono’s village was burned down by Bison on a Tuesday.

LOL. That’s the only logical explanation to why he is doing this to THE SF boss. Shame.

[m16ghost]

Hm. I wonder if the improved U1 works as a reactionary AA against people neutral jumping in Bison’s face. That would be a pretty good buff. My feeling is that it will probably still whiff, but any help to Bison’s AA game is a plus.

[Dontdodat]

Jumping mp to hell attack is still a great a counter to neutral jumps.

So I think the new U1 might be more viable versus those grounded cross ups? Even dash under U1.

[jebop]

Ignore medium punches for RF combos. The damage is good, but scaling applies at long combos, plus, the stun suffers considerably.

There are reasons, jebop. First, I like the character. I will use him anyway. Second, I play with my characters’ strengths, not weaknesses, so I only care for what I can do with him that I couldn’t. Third, I like to think of new strategies. Fourth, I want to play Bison to its max potential, but I’m not really into tournaments for many reasons, so I don’t really care if he’s top tier. I just don’t want him as bottom.

I had a similar mindset, until I had to stop going tournaments. Now I just hate the game cause there’s close to no thinking online. “Just do it cause I can”, mentality.

I don’t think I’m in a rush for Ultra now, unless I definitely plan on using someone else. I’ll be getting the game though. Bison just seems “meh” now. Not terrible, but nothing really special to look forward to.

[Kriger_Stern]

damage reduction on fs.mp is really stupid as everyone already pointed out but its gone back to +0/+3 instead of -1/+2 then i’d say that’s a pretty good trade off

• we get a slightly weaker whiff punish, but still a HUGE improvement if we consider what we have in previous versions. it’s 210dmg now instead of 230, and we get a KD and tons of corner carry.
• instead of using s.mp as a complete c.mk replacement, it now serves closer to a “fix” in the bnbs that would whiff against certain characters
• combos from crumples and jump ins are still much stronger than previous versions. the jump in combo damage we lose from this damage reduction is very minimal as well. for example…

doing [jump in > c.mp > fs.mp > RFA > c.mp > fs.mp xx hksk] actually does the same damage as jump in > c.mp > fs.mp > RFA > cls.hp xx hksk]. fairly certain the second combo does a little more stun too? really we lose very very little damage when it comes down to scaling as well.

it’s still all shitty that we lose damage at all, BUT the fact we can now stagger with fs.mp for counter hits means we’re getting MORE damage by comboing fs.mp into itself on counter hit and still getting a cancel. no charge? well we still get a fs.mp or s.mk or s.rh link for MORE damage than was possible before.

plus we get the new NMB. i know it’s easy as heck to AA with sagat’s U1 and that’s 10 frames. you don’t see it often because who wants to jump at sagat? but people sure like to jump at bison! a reactionary AA ultra punish? yes please

a lot of what i said really hinges on fs.mp being +0/+3 instead of -1/+2. my hype will get deflated again if that turns out to not be true. that said, what it looks like is instead of trying to replace c.mk with with fs.m in any way we can, we’ll use it simply in different (and imo better) ways. we lose - and let’s be honest here - relatively insignificant damage in some combos in return for greater overall utilities.

and the two things to stress are the buff in footsies is incredible no matter what way you look at it, AND we got this NBM which to be is gonna be godly

220 damage. Cr.MP still deals 80

[Rioting_Soul]

Can’t wait for ver. 2015

[Kriger_Stern]

Honestly, after seeing Adon, Makoto, Sagat, Honda, Akuma (DWU), Zangief nerfs…I think it will be a much funnier experience.
You can’t merely compare changes. You have to contemplate the whole scenario. System changes and other characters’ changes.

Makoto can’t escape Bison and spam Axe Kick now. Adon is screwed Zangief can’t spam jump HP anymore. Honda won’t EX HB freely. Guile will be much more tolerable now. His defensive game is nerfed (which is Bison’s problem). Cammy’s dive kick is focusable now.

[MisterFrosty]

Yeah I Agree with Kriger, Bison, while he has not been over buffed nor over nerfed, can hold his ground better now because of the balancing of the other characters. I think that the real threat to Bison now will be Yun and T.Hawk and to some extent to Guile, which will be tolerable because of EX Scissors and RFA.

[exogen]

Cammy’s dive kick is not only focusable, it can be AA’d with c.hp. I KNOW because I did it!! I actually whiffed against her dive kick, that’s how fast it is.

But the change to s.mp damage is a problem. they should not have done that.

[Sotts]

they nerf psycho Crusher EX but not correct this … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRgUi8xxZqY

[jebop]

Can’t wait for ver. 2015

2016* You’re being a bit pessimistic don’t you think?

Honestly, after seeing Adon, Makoto, Sagat, Honda, Akuma (DWU), Zangief nerfs…I think it will be a much funnier experience.
You can’t merely compare changes. You have to contemplate the whole scenario. System changes and other characters’ changes.

Makoto can’t escape Bison and spam Axe Kick now. Adon is screwed Zangief can’t spam jump HP anymore. Honda won’t EX HB freely. Guile will be much more tolerable now. His defensive game is nerfed (which is Bison’s problem). Cammy’s dive kick is focusable now.

What I was thinking. Nothing is really safe anymore. I remember, there was a time in games where you had to commit to something, if it failed, you got punished. Now it’s just WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH :’(

Cammy’s dive kick is not only focusable, it can be AA’d with c.hp. I KNOW because I did it!! I actually whiffed against her dive kick, that’s how fast it is.

But the change to s.mp damage is a problem. they should not have done that.

Yup. I AA’d Cammy a few times with it myself. Also funny when people go for the brain dead one, and are shocked about being punished.