I guess it’s time.
Seth is in Ultra? Due to personal stuff, I can’t even play Ultra when it’s out, saw the release date. Ffs. >.>
i was fooling around a bit in pmode vs seth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s40MT4e5qFY&feature=youtu.be, poor guy lol
and other characters have even more openings for shit like that i think.
i think even if he stayed the way he was in ae2012 he wouldn’t be top10 in usf4. the nerf on the setup after spd is quite big, and you see what redfokus does to him
Could you please try different combos?
Instead of using CloseHP >Light Kick > Medium Punch, try Close HP (only) or Cr.MP > S.MP
maybe this is possible with easier links
just tested, closehp into hk sk works as well
Interesting things i’ve tested :
- scissor EX into ex red focus work everytime on the 1st hit against Sagat
- cr.hp OS ex red focus could be a dead tool
for more resets/tricks
Starting from near the middle of the screen: J.HP > CloseHP > Scissors HK > EX RF > CloseHP > Scissors HK. Lands in the corner. EX Psycho as frametrap = 900 stun.
From here, simply J.HP/NJ.HK > CloseHP > Scissors HK
deals more than 800 damage. 3 bars. No Ultra required.
Works on Guile. He has 900 stun.
Ok guys, so got back from ECT.
Unfortunately, given the setup I was not able to test things in a systematic way as I wanted, due tot he fact that the defacto rule was first to three wins has to give it up for the next contestant, and there was always a line at every console.
However, I tried to keep everyone in mind and focus on the changes. Here is what I noticed and anyone can ask questions.
Overall, I have to say that Bison is, in my opinion, ALOT better off. This is the best version of Bison in my book. So let me go down the list.
AA; the C.fierce is DAMN good. It may trade in some instances, but the thing is so fast I was whiffing on Cammy Cannot spikes. Trust me when I say, gone are the days of people abusing us from the air, neutral jumping, and jumping in for free. It really comes out fast. I knocked Cammy right out of the air, which btw is a totally fair matchup now!!
S.MP; again VERY good. c.mp to s.mp is so easy, and there are really allot of possibilities for this move. It is great after an SK to snuff or which punish stuff for big damage. And it DOES work in certain instances as an AA. It really works!
I think I could tell the SK nerf was there, but honestly it isn’t that game breaking. I was still able to do c.lk follow up and with the s.mp there are many other opinions. The SK does seem to have double the chip!! This is a big deal because you don’t want to see there and take the pressure, and you KNOW you can’t jump for free anymore.
The hell attack into crusher is nice too. I didn’t see it hitting twice though in the juggle, so idk what’s going on there.
Crossup PC seems more safe, but I did get punished a few times, I think even with a demon. But it is hard to say if I just miss timed the PC or not. I do know against this Cammy player he was mashing the cannon spike and I kept beating him out on wakeup after a lk sk knockdown.
the head stomp being faster even if it only two frames does help though. It is less likely to be back dashed now! This is good. It beats out more in the air from what I could see due to the speed increase.
Double ultra was w/e, I didn’t even bother to use it. I used U1 the whole time.
Red focus was good. I didn’t really mess with it, but SAW the potential. Trust, this is Bison’s way to Ultra not counting random hell attack opportunities.
EX devil reverse is a REALLY good move for punishing certain things. That thing falls FAST. He drops like a stone and can really punish whiffed moves with high recovery. Any of those past instances where you fake a stomp but just don’t have the speed to punish, or the damage for that matter, now you do. Its decent, seriously.
I really felt that there was better damage output and didn’t feel like I was struggling like I am in AE for scraps.
I talked to Combofiend about Bison. I told him overall I was happy with the changes, but mentioned the skull diver. he said “its a great move.” He mentioned the bit about wiggling and all that, which I told him at high level it could be punished and was basically worthless. His response was simply not to use it that often and use it as a sneak attack. I told him that if your conditioned to beat it you could never use it unless that person simply slipped up, but that doesn’t make it a good move.
His attitude was that he wasn’t going to address it. He also said that at this point they are taking more feedback from the Japanese players. I was kind of disappointed about that because skull diver is the one move I really wanted fixed.
We should petition Combofiend here on SRK to sneak in that change before it becomes final.
In any event,
the game felt really slow, like you were moving through cement. I wasn’t the only one who felt this. EVERYONE else said the same thing. We told Comofiend and he said that one of the prior builds it felt to fast, but not the worry because the final build will be good.
That’s all I can remember now. Any questions?
[/quote]
Hey man, thanks for taking the time to write all that up. Very cool.
seems like the same updates according to this video published 5/15/14
I’m testing some stuff with blacktoof’s mod:
Can someone confirm this for me? I’ve been trying cr.MP>st.MP on a crouching Ryu in the corner, and it doesn’t seem to be possible, maybe some hitbox shenanigans.
Anyways, it works on a standing Ryu, but not crouching.
Edit: Doesn’t work on these characters if they’re crouching - Ryu, Ken, Dudley, Gouken, Dan, Chun-li, C.Viper, Cammy, Guy, E.Ryu, Adon, Rose
Also, according to combofiend’s video, blacktoof didn’t implement the psycho crusher changes correctly. You can only hit with the tail end of psycho crusher after Hell Attack.
The loctest I was at in March the front of Pyscho Crusher hit after Hell Attack.
I remember doing c.mp to s.mp on someone in Ultra, but I can’t remember if that was on counter hit. I don’t think it was though.
I’ve done it too.
Works on Gouken.
If you start from a jump-in, works on Dudley.
When I did it, it was from a standing position. It was in the footsie game.
I haven’t been on top with how the Delayed wakeup works, is it only on hard knock down or throws too? If it’s throws too then Bison gimmicks are somewhat nerfed (auto correct scissors, EX psycho crusher after forward throw setup)
All hard knock downs, as I said earlier I’m of the opinion we can learn to confirm delayed wakeup from our opponent after back throw. Until the game comes out I won’t know for sure.
Yeah it’s on all hard know down guys, I saw it for myself. But honestly, you guys will see. With the better damage tools and AA, those Bison gimmicks are not so much of an issue.
Bare in mind they are going to have an update, so there will be time to readdress Bison once Ultra has been out for a while.
This will give us a chance to really formulate the character because much of the complaints have been addressed now. The real question is, is this enough for bison to win, or will he be still missing something tactically? I am referring to his moves not working. Some of the issues have been addressed. The 2 frame faster startup helps the head stomp not whiff against situations where it could be back dashed, and we will have to see about PC. EX devils reverse I think completes him better now because normal DR is good for limited meter building and escapes and repositioning, whereas EX is now for punishes. The skull diver is the move that still needs a slight adjustment. It was like I told Combofiend, the move just needs to “work.” If they tweak his moves a bit more, if that is necessary, I think that would really be all he needs.
I still don’t think it’s enough, he’s just stale… but it wouldn’t surprise me to see him in top 8 more. After seeing 600 damage combo into Ultra punish on Guile with Decapre, new counter pick!
Sonic Boom… Pah!
Well, if they don’t alter damage scaling after red focus cancel, we have…
A 3-frame 424 dmg punish ( cr.lk xx MK SK xx RFDC full ultra 1)
A pretty easy hit-confirmable 550-554 dmg jump-in ( either j.HP>st.HP xx HK SK xx RFDC full ultra 1 or just j.HP>st.HP xx RFDC full ultra 1)
And a pretty fucking scary 555 dmg counter-hit combo (st.HP>st.MP xx HK SK xx RFDC full ultra 1)
Actually, any counter-hit combo that ends with any SK will get you about 450-500 dmg if you red focus ultra it.
The best damage I’ve got out of red focus combos was 574, with ex.skulldiver > cr.MP>st.MP xx HK SK xx red focus ultra whatever
Not really that good in comparison to the twins red focus stun death combos, but still something.