Cody has a fake badstone. There’s no way you can U2 rocks on reaction without just hoping he went for the real one.
U2’s effective range is pretty much covered by EX-scissors already. So there are only a handful of matchups where you would regularly find yourself at fullscreen where U2 actually makes a difference- Gouken, Sim, Sagat, Seth. Gouken I find hard to believe can be U2’d with any consistency. I’ve definitely had the screen freeze while his fb just left his hand, and he was still able to block in time (rather than attempting to jump, which gives you more leeway to punish).
You can only buffer U2 once, otherwise you lose charge. If your opponent is feinting, then you lose your charge. You can use his hesitation to walk forward, but that’s about it.
Now, I don’t have the best reaction time, so it’s certainly reasonable to say that if you have fast reactions, then the move is useful at high level. But if that were the case, then you’d either expect a) the move to hit with any regularity (which it doesn’t) or b) for it to alter your opponent’s behavior in a way that is beneficial to Bison (again, limited to a handful of matchups)
But the telltale signs that U2 isn’t even that effective at high level is when you see high level Bisons switching to U1 in matchups where you’d expect it to make a difference (like Ryu). There are recorded offline matches where you see Happy Medicine, Kim1234 and Neurosis picking U1 in fireball matchups. I’ve seen Jeron attempt to U2 Sanford, only for it to get blocked. And when U2 was supposedly good back in Super, Andre never hits Daigo with U2. You can see Daigo first test him and then decide to fireball recklessly because Andre just isn’t going to use the ultra. Even back in Super, Andre had given up on the move.
Even if you have the reactions to use U2 reliably, its benefit is marginal at best. IMO, the ultra needs to be reworked in concept, especially after EX-scissors gets buffed in Ultra.
So in the current build of Ultra, DP FADC forward is -5 on block, unless they use EX.DP in which case its -1, which is fine because it costs 3 bars.
So I assume this is done by decreasing the block stun on normal DP’s by 4 frames.
So most DP characters should be punishable on back dash as well.
Adon: -9
Akuma: -12
Cammy: -7 (can cancel last frame of back dash)
Evil Ryu: -15
Fei Long: -14
Ken: -14
Oni: -14 (can cancel last frame of back dash)
Ryu: -14
Sagat: -16
Seth: -12
Characters at -10 frames should be punishable with reversal LK. SK and characters at -14 or more should be HK.SK punishable. From here you can Super cancel, FADC or EX.RFA.
I need to test to see if Bison’s normal have range to punish the back dashes of characters who are at -9 or less and in the event that he doesn’t have charge. I know he can punish Sagat with S.HK.
Against DP FADC forward , Bison can do C.LP, CL.LP, S.MP XX HK.SK for 231 damage. Nice and simple, no 1 frame links punish.
I also checked to see if these characters could do DP xx EX.FA (lvl 1) as a block string and then dash cancel it to make themselves safer, but even in AE its not a true block string and you can reversal through the gap between DP and the lvl 1 EX.FA. Assuming DP’s do have 4 frames less block stun in Ultra, then you should be able to punish with the same combo you can punish DP FADC forward or at the very least a throw.
Gone will be the days of 4 bars of meter meaning reversal DP FADC, DP FADC and 2 free attempts at Ultra.
Correct me if i’m mistaken but i think when you U2 react to a hadouken at the right timing so it’d be a real punish the Ryu (or w/e) player can actually still FADC his fireball AFTER the flash, forward dash and punish you, or just block. This happened to me before (although i didn’t react i was buffering). A faster U2 would at least prevent this kind of situation because it’d punish the recovery frames of the dash. I think 18f of startup would be nice.
Anyway i dont understand why people doesnt complain too much about U1, it’s slow, it’s not THAT damaging, it whiffs the first two hits if you do after a focus backdash (is there a way to prevent this?) and the only way you can combo into it also works for U2. This one should be AT VERY LEAST 10f, 8f would be nice.
Its unfortunate that it weakens offensive play for everyone, but its a price I’m willing to pay to render vortex tactics less effective. Its not what solves unblockables, Capcom changed how blocking works to fix that.
Bison has new more damaging punish combo’s in Ultra.
CL.HP, S.LK, S.MP XX HK.SK (300 damage)
C.MP, S.MP XX HK.SK (282 damage)
C.MP will be replaced by S.MP after CH CL.HP, its one frame easier than C.MP and does 10 more damage.
The damage distribution you suggest would be a little too good, something like (90*50) would be more balanced. Bare in mind FADC combo’s have been improved a bit already thanks to S.MP and Scissor Kick buffs.
Bison is destined to have weak anti air for all enternity. Its part of his design, its never going to change.
See above. Be happy we can now combo in to it.
I agree make it faster, but not by that amount. Maybe 18 frames at most, and remove its armour break properties. It should not a counter to focus attack if its made faster.
Bison is a good character, and he will do more damage in Ultra.
The first combo you mentioned, character specific? (Gouken/Chun?)
As far as anti air goes I disagree with the design argument, the game has evolved and it makes no sense to not consider giving Bison a better tool. It’s like saying he shouldn’t be able to teleport because he was designed differently in past games, he even had a projectile once.
I’m looking forward to a new cr.hp and the new damage, my list was just a wish list I thought of on the spot. I understand characters need weaknesses and we are lucky Bison will improve and in turn be more fun to play.
@Azza
So basically punishing DPs will become a mindgame, if you predict a focus backdash you can do SK, but if the opponent releases it you get hit by a counter hit focus, which crumples. So your best bet would probably be to punish it as if it as cancelled into a forward dash, so you safely cover both forward dash and release. If the opponent dashes backwards, he gets away, but at least he doesn’t get a mixup afterwards. This is by far the smartest change in ultra.
Nope, unblockables are still in the game, it was confirmed by many players. DW was just an easy fix.
No its universal. Of course its got two one frame links in it and its not safe on block. You could always cancel into LK.SK at end. The LK.SK only hits once, but you will still do more damage than you would do landing the current CL.HP, S.LK, S.HK (230 compared to 218). If you drop the combo you will at least do some chip damage.
A character that will have excellent pokes, excellent anti-fireball tools and a strong wake up game should not have strong anti-air options.
I think you might have time to visually confirm what your opponent is doing and be able able to react to all 3 options. I don’t have access to the game till tomorrow, I’ll check then.
As for unblockables, I did read articles that they fixed or reduced unblockables by changing the way block works.
DW was not meant to be the solution to unblockables, its a mechanic to weaken vortex tactics.
I highly doubt you can react to the backdash, I don’t think you have enough time. Maybe you can OS it? If that’s the case, it would mean dps will never be safe on block, which is definitely a huge change.
I also remember reading that dashes cancelled from focus attacks are different from regular dashes, so maybe it varies from case to case.
Meh Dictator’s pokes aren’t that good. No damage and easily focused in this game. Mean while there are lots of examples of characters that have everything at their disposal. I suppose these are the imbalances.
Dudley players = I got st.hk twice, EX MACHINEGUN BLOOO
Makoto = Fuck I’m on low life… DASH, DASH, DA random psycho crusher SCRUB CHARACTER!
Ryu = Round 1… FIGHT! Tatsumaki
Ken = SHORYUUUUKEN
Blanka/Fuerte = Gtfo, they don’t think in any matchup.
Vega = Bison so cheap even though this is slightly in my favor.
Guy = Sponsored by Drake… Yolo -> Jump back, jump back, random elbow, random flip into grab, yolo slide while I’m still waking up, jump back, run, unsafe overhead that doesn’t connect. I can easily beat crossup psycho crusher and teleport, but I’ll call Bison cheap anyway.
Cammy = I CAN’T DIVE KICK? FUCKING 7-3 MATCHUP TO BISON
Yun = I CAN’T DIVE KICK? Lunge Punch.
Rufus = I CAN’T DIVE KICK? JESUS KICK!
Balrog = Complain about everything if I can’t yolo into headbutt.
Bison is good, but not great. Most people that complain about him play these characters, and not very well. >.>
That Cl s.HP, s.LK, s.MP xx HK Scissor combo is barely viable. It’s great if it lands, but it’s already quite difficult to even land Cl s.HP, s.LK, s.HK right now lol If you can’t even land that, you can kiss that new combo good bye.
I really like the hit confirming into red cancels.
Some combos I’ve been practicing a lot on the PC mod for muscle memory
c.LK s.LK s.MP xx HK Knee Press RF1 crumple Ultra (3f opener into Ultra w/meter)
c.LP, s.LK, s.MP xx HK Knee Press RF1 crumple Ultra (4f opener into Ultra w/meter)
s.MP xx HK Knee Press RF1 crumple Ultra (5f opener into Ultra w/meter)
s.MP pretty much covers a lot of range up behind s.MK and s.HK and cancels into Knee Press, which is a pretty important part. IMHO I think Bison can actually close a lot more matches now since he has big damage in the mid range where he excels at poking. Bison has to push so many people to the corner for good damage. I feel now he doesn’t need to rely on that as much especially when there’s good opponents that put Bison on the chase for most of the match.
Bison still gets people in the corner. People still don’t know how to deal with his pressure, it was almost as if nothing changed when I played, in terms of the pressure game. Doesn’t need it though, like you said. I just kept going for new combos when playing more than anything else. Whereas I saw others still going cr.lk x3 into scissors, not trying to explore anything at all.
Does the mod still have cr.mp x2, st.mp, scissors? That wasn’t in the version I played but I saw someone do it in a video.
I agree - it’s going to be lots of fun nailing standing medium punch in someone’s face for an Ultra, I think 3 bars to land an Ultra is completely feasible. At the moment on offense I waste meter to position myself for frame traps that don’t always happen while defensively I use it on EX attacks to escape knock downs. EX Scissors Red FADC Ultra while being full stocks is a great fireball punish for a rough 40%.
Close standing medium punch startup is now 6 frames, instead of 8 frames. It is now +2 on hit instead of ±0. It is now -1 on block instead of -3. It now has 12 frames recovery instead of 11. It is now special, super and focus cancellable.
The original document is badly written. S.MP is +3/+0. The changes to frame advantage are probably S.MK’s.
Which means S.MK is now +2/-1
I don’t know Japanese but what I can guess by looking at the changes and frame data is that they have reduced the disadvantage of St.Mk from -3 to -1, and Increased the advantage on hit to be +2 from 0. The second change is St.hp start-up increase from 11 to 12 frames.
That is all the new stuff I believe. **This is all guess work based on Bison frame data and the proposed changes **. I hope we get a propber translation shortly.
So… does this mean far st.mp is no longer cancelable? Not that I’m surprised, but still pretty odd
EDIT: it was just a typo, pretty decent changes so far. From what I’ve heard, this is not even the final build, just the arcade version which is still subject to changes.
Yes, it is cancellable. Bad translation. Everything there (except smk stuff I mentioned) is about FAR MP
here, updated:
Far standing medium punch startup is now 6 frames, instead of 8 frames. It is now +2 on hit instead of ±0. It is now -1 on block instead of -3. It now has 12 frames recovery instead of 11. It is now special, super and focus cancellable.
If you can’t even land that, you can kiss that new combo good bye.