True that I forgot the long hours needed in training to whiff that normal juuuust right.
It seems Bison’s players who tried USF4 in Final Round 17 is worried about the regular PC change. Tampa Bison twitted about it.
I am worried solely for the fact that they felt the need to nerf a charge special move of regular PC mediocre, or should I say awful, caliber. I mean, to further nerf a charge special move ,which is in a much need of some buffs, by giving it abysmal chip damage and making it less safe than it currently is seems strange. The move already has bad hurtbox which extend further than his hand coupled with slow startup and somewhat slow horizontal movement. If it hits your opponent than you are rewarded with 100 damage and that’s it, it is not like we are left in a favorable position when it hits or blocked. It is not like that we can win a match solely because cross-up PC landed.
off topic: Guys quick question, Is Zangief lariat invincible on the middle of portion of his body ? my St.Mk and St.HK was getting countered by Zangief lariat and I lost tons of health. Even meaty PC get beaten by Gief lariat.
Crouch Lariat hits crouching initially I believe, which means it would hit mid attacks too. In the situation you mention however its because the hurtbox on all of that stuff is colliding with it (st.mk and hk are encased in a hurtbox across the entire limb. PC has hurtboxes along the top).
yes that is what i mean. i also meant that maintaining the lead via BS (eg. stopping/reversing pressure with FADC) will be harder because the BS is now basically gone
for everything else you said - i also recognize and agree to that. however, i just don’t care as much. it’s a small price to pay imo, and that’s probably because i play bison. it was already hard regaining the lead in the first place. dwu makes it marginally harder sure, but i’ve lost more games to vortex and BS than i have at simply surrendering my lead through my poor play/decisions. net gain as far as im concerned.
Yup, Zangief’s middle body has no hurtbox, which is why fireballs and psycho crusher go through him. He can guess lariat to counter st.mk, but st.hk almost always trades
I like the red cancels for 3 stocks. They are gonna be Bison’s trump cards in certain match ups IMO.
Has to be a punish situation though I think. The scaling fucks you in a combo, even NMB.
Yes but it doesn’t scale as bad as regular focus at all. It’s much more lenient.
Think of it this way, you can punish with s.LK, s.MP xx HK Knee Press, EX Red focus, Ultra. You’re still doing really good especially when the opponent is dipping under 30-40%.
I mean if ya got the meter, just do it! Canceling a midscreen HK Knee Press into it for Ultra isn’t a bad idea either especially if say you commited to Ultra 1 for the damage and EX-Psycho or regular HK Knee Press just isn’t enough damage to seal the deal. I think the red cancels are the future for a lot of characters that don’t have the DP FADC luxury since SF4 release. It’s pretty dynamic IMO
Yeah to that point,
its kind of like Bison has become Rog now. He can ultra and lame out…this is great!!! Now Bison has no real reason to get in your face. Just stand back and poke you to death, and at opportune moments rush down if he wishes. But now he has the comback potential to win.
Meh. I don’t know about you people, but to me it seems DW will only slow the game down even more. I understand vortex needs to go, however remember how much people complained about the game being so slow? Even more than vortex?
Throws in v2012 give characters a temporary advantage which, if used well, can lead to a momentum shift. Now that it’s basically gone, the one with the lead will ALWAYS have the advantage and won’t even fear to lose it. Gaining momentum is gonna be harder, if not impossible (like SFxT), and players will just sit there and do nothing for seconds. I’d rather have vortex than having to watch that crap.
I also still find it extremely unfair that Bison is so free to jump-ins at certain distances, especially when there are characters who can completely wreck him with safe frame traps leading to ultra on hit. I hope they buff cr. fierce a bit more, since doing a random hell attack is not worth the risk by any stretch of imagination.
Depends. When you land a hit in SFxT it’s potentially 50-60% hp gone; there’s more blocking because of that. In SF4 you are building it for wakeup pressure a lot. They have different dynamics. IMO they need the delayed wakeup because a lot of characters have sufficient but not dominant wake up games and mix ups as to like a top 7-9 characters that excel in it.
I think the DWU will be fine in the end. You can whiff an extra normal and time it if you read the opponent. I personally like the ground based game more. You watch high level matches right now, they are already very ground based. And I’m sure with Bison you can play around and figure out that along with delayed wake up timings, you can probably whiff a quick normal after letting a full dash go or canceling the last frames of the dash into a jump for the timings to continue pressure. I don’t feel it’s as complicated as people are making it. It’s 11 frames or nothing I believe.
Man , this is a bit stupid, it should be fireball invincible only. I was losing double what I am going for+ knockdown just trying to poke this gief and gain space. He was good, he knew the ranges where I would be most likely going with St.Mk,hk and he lairated me most of the time , I felt really hopeless with the damage I received just trying to play my ground game. If Gief knew the match-up I feel it is Bison worst match-up beside Guile, I am not sure how it will be in Ultra but I hope it become better, as it is now it seems Gief can play very risky and get rewarded a ton and Bison low damage output really hit you hard in this matchup.
DWU is lame because I started to learn Juri just because of her cheap underrated mixups. NOW I HAVE TO PLAY STREET FIGHTER? Playing Fei Long.
I dislike DWU as well, adds another guess layer for the attacker. Yeah it sort of solves unblockables but at the expense of general knockdown pressure.
Anyways, short list of changes I’d appreciate:
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Close Fierce +5 on hit, I want to be able to do big damage punish without FADC and also make cr.mp easier after Ch. Perhaps get it to come out from further distances.
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Redistribute damage on HK Scissors so that it’s worthwhile to FADC. Make second hit always 30 so right now its 70•60, in Ultra make it 110•30 (incl damage buff). Leave stun as is.
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Super dumb request to give upper body invincible frames to Psycho Crusher like Sumo Headbutt
Or
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At least buff U1 startup for anti air purposes.
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Faster startup on U2, at least 15 would be workable. Method of execution can stay charge if this is the case. Currently I use this Ultra 5% of the time.
I think Bison is a good character but as you can see I want more damage for him.
When you can dash U2 Guile before he even throws Sonic Boom, and it still doesn’t connect… You have a problem.
u2 is fine as is. changing it won’t do anything for bison’s play
stop complaining
How exactly it is fine ? That ultra is practically near useless. It’s basically a charge move with 22 frames start-up with no invincibility frames and deals 420 damage, that you will rarely land. It does not aid him, Ultras are a major system mechanic and no character should be left out.
it acts as an anti fireball against every character except guile and juri. the rest of the cast can be reaction’d to with various degrees of difficulty (deejay/gouken/cody being the hardest but doable).
i don’t know what situation everyone is trying to anti-fb and not hitting to be calling u2 so bad. if you’re standing mid to full screen on db and can’t react to a free (and very stupid) fireball from your opponent then you’re too slow. if you’re hiding your charge or buffering and you legit bait out a fireball, all you have to do is react with 3 buttons. again if you can’t do that you’re just too slow.
situation one is just low level play anyway. situation two is how you’re supposed to be using the ultra and it works.
why complain about invincibility? why complain about start up if it works as is? do you just want to throw it out like scrubs do with their 3-10 frame ultras and pray they catch a limb during footsies or something? damage is fine - 420/450 whatever. it’s an anti fireball ultra so if you want damage go to u1.
honestly most of the things i read people complaining about on these forums regarding bison are problems with the players and not the character. stop complaining
By that logic why should any anti fireball ultra be any faster then?
Chun Li: 7 frames
Blanka: 12 frames
Dudley: 8 frames
Seth: 10 frames
There are obviously more but Bison’s Ultra 2 hands down has the slowest start up (by a huge margin)and it requires a charge.
I’ve never called U2 useless but I literally use anti fireball U2 in only 2 match ups: Sim and Rose. It is not reliable in most other match ups.
Considering the sort of start ups other characters have I don’t think my request for 15 frame start up is by any stretch of the imagination unfair.
However I am really interested in using U2 better so if you have videos of yourself using it against Sagat, Akuma Ryu, Oni, Gouken or Deejay etc please let me know.
You really think it is a good anti-fireball ultra by this game standard? I cannot disagree more with what you say. This ultra rarely works because it is too slow , I hardly ever seen a Bison player who can land it constantly. You must be a person with amazing/elite reactions to be able to pull it off consistently. Otherwise, its simply too slow (the slowest in the game) and unreliable, it is not a matter of being a bad player or not.