The Guile problem isn’t the invincibility of scissors, it’s the recovery of booms.
The increased invincibility is great against other projectiles but it’s useless against booms still.
I’m liking the buff in other matchups but to say that now makes the Guile matchup competitive is ludicrous.
As much as I hate it, I think the only option is to:
The match is still going to be stupid hard, it just makes it easier for him against other FB characters, which aren’t that much of a problem anyway.
Shaow OS,
how about you make a video detailing how good this stuff is? And while your at it make a vid showing how the teleport and SK nerf is not as relevant. Show us real situations that are BnB practical.
…you’ve never landed a jump in? never landed a cross up? never baited someone out for a full punish?
don’t jump down my throat just because i’m not ready to dismiss bison. -1 sk sucks ass, teleport nerf sucks ass, but i’m looking on the brighter side
i absolutely will post videos when i get the chance. hopefully tonight.
It helps against guile because we actually has an opportunity to use the ultra and deal high damage. So we will be able to capitalize on openings to deal high damage when we have the resources to do it. However, Guile has gotten stronger with nothing but buffs, the system changes also benefit him greatly. So I believe the match up will be worse than before because what they gave Bison to help him deal with guile , ExSK,is hardly useful against Guile Sonic Boom recovery. Don’t get me wrong, ExSK is Amazing against every fireball character minus Guile. Against Guile however, it has almost no effect on the match up. Guile can bait it and ultra 1 Bison easily even if you spaced it so it only hit with the second hit.
Come on Shadow, it is not that good. Try to spend more time with it and you will see that it trades must of the time . I still thing the hitbox needs some adjustment and it should be faster by a frame or 2 , than will have a really good anti-air.
c.fierce is a very good buff. A trade on a jump is good for Bison unless the trade kills him. You are keeping them on the ground where you should be smashing them. Trading and beating shit clean is pretty damn good. c.fierce doesn’t get beat clean very often unless you are slow as hell with the button.
I use it all the time in the current version and it is a solid AA if you get it out there early enough.
Bro, relax, where did I “jump down your throat?” I’m just skeptical and simply was asking for you to show some evidence to back your theory.
Sure, I have landed a jump in, cross up or baited a punish. Jump ins and crossups are not Bisons BnB because they are more risky. I want to see high damage that DOESN’T rely on cross-ups or jump ins. Secondly, “full punishes” are not exactly BnB either because they are not concistent. You should know as well as I, that Bison’s punishes are inconsistent, even though he has to rely on them. That is one of the reasons the character suffers, where other characters can do high damage off relatively safe setups.
again, I am skeptical. so please show us some evidence on video. Its not that I’m trying to jump down your throat. I meant no ill intent, just want some hard evidence to further better dialogue.
ionno… the way you said it seemed very sarcastic
anyway, i apologize too for jumping the gun
now here’s the video:
for both the rufus and yun parts, i’m showing off the new ranges we can AA with using the buffed normals as opposed to using s.rh. KEEP IN MIND that there are still ranges and angles that can stuff the new normals, but the fact is we get NEW spaces we can control
the exsk parts really shows off how easy it is to go through fireballs. you see a fireball and you just exsk your way in willy nilly. it’s just as easy to do against any other character as it is ryu (yes, even deejay, chun, high tigers, gouken fbs…)
the honda part is just to show off how easy punishing him will be. even if the nerf isn’t as bad as in this mod, there is a very very very high chance that c.mp will be able to connect. it’s also interesting that honda has less push-back when he does exhb up close. i didn’t notice that before
the very end of the video is just something i thought was funny and will 99% not be in the actual game
i didn’t show cl.fierce > s.short > > s.mp xx sk but that does work rest assured
i didn’t show cl.mk (ch) > s.mp xx sk. that combo already works wtih c.mp and c.mk but c.mk will often whiff and c.mp has tricky timing. s.mp is very easy to do
sadly, s.mp i think is only +5 on counter hit. i couldn’t combo into s.mk or s.rh at all and you’re too far for c.mk to connect too. it’s very strange since all of bison’s other medium and heavy normals give him +3 and +4 on counter hit whereas s.mp seems to give only +2
Ok, so the jump in combos again are basically neither here nor there. Sure they are more damage, but he never really had a problem with jump in combos to begin with. They are more risky and therefore are not part of his BnB. Bison’s BnB is on the ground. To that effect indeed you can link the mp after the c. and then standing shorts, but you could always have linked a c.mk for the same effect, so how has this changed anything?
Now the area that his normals shine is in the AA department more so than before. Yes it is definitely better than it was before. But who dive kicks from that height? What can they do when Rufus and company is on top of you doing like 30 dive kicks a second mixing in throws, crossups and other ambiguous attacks?
but he still lacks combo into ultra and more than half his moves are ass.
The hell attack buff is a cool idea but who cares because the move blows to begin with.
overall he looks like they wont be able to just abuse him as much with respect to jumping at him and dive kick mania, but that has never been his major problem. The mp I don’t see doing anything game breaking because it doesn’t get him any new strategic options.
Who’s gonna walk into st:mp range (without a plan)? I don’t understand why some think its a great footsie tool now…if your playing footsie’s you have to sacrifice the charge at times. So if an opponent is getting out poked by st:mp its them not the buff…I’m not gonna gamble (unless their bad) in low forward range trying to hit st:mp, they getting checked with st:mk/rh every time.
Yeah, that was more or less my impression: we don’t get a “solution” for the MU, we get buffs to capitalize more our guess right/opponent error, changes as playstyle are going to be that once ready we will become a little bit more aggressive searching openings and search ways to build up that 3-4 super bars we need to be dangerous
My problem is last point, if i play Gief (i use Ryu, Dictator and Gief) build meter is going to be kinda easy… new EX BF is going to suck and be often replaced by normal version, just play will build up bars after bars
But Dictator? His EX are still going to be important, and play with too much meter-build mentality may make us lose opportunities
3-4 bars + U1 ready Bison is going to be a scary badass compared to previous versions, but get there is the problem imho
Even with 3-4 bars but no U1 is a way less scary dude
I mean SK into exRFAlv1 into throw can hurt, but is not world breaker stuff
Basically as you said we are against a stronger Guile and we start as usual Bison (if we don’t count that nice new st.MP)
About RFA how you see armor breaker stuff?
We have PC (and U2, lol), they have Flash Kick (and Super)
more time to hit confirm (wasn’t difficult before i’ll admit), more time to charge, more damage, and consistency are what has changed. go try c.lk, s.lk, c.mk xx sk on every character. what you’ll find is that on many characters the c.mk will whiff or get blocked. s.mp eliminates that completely.
same thing with the cross up combos i was showing. the cr.mk whiffs on certain characters or you get a far.lp instead of cl.lp. being able to ALWAYS add s.lk into s.mp means consistency and more damage
what do you mean “who jumps at that height”? every high level rufus (ricky ortiz and jwong) does that to stuff bison. delayed dive kicks and neutral dive kicks screw with bison’s s.rh and lets rufus get it for free. now you can stop that and rufus has a much harder time getting in. rufus has to play more of a ground game and guess which character wins that fight?
if rufus is on top of you dive kicking then no, those normals will not help you, but you should be using s.lk when he’s right on top of you. that’s ignoring the fact you shouldn’t have let him get that close in the first place, but now you have greater control in preventing that whole scenario from happening in the first place
RFA EX gives him the hit confirm. i will say that i had trouble actually performing RFA EX after an SK though. my fingers fumble around because you have to awkwardly press 3 buttons and your hands usually aren’t in that position after a bison combo. i’m hoping practice will resolve that problem.
anyway, basically any time someone wants to do something -3 against bison and bison has 3 bars, they risk eating ~420 damage
as with many of bison’s moves, it is situational. yes it gets stuffed by other moves in the air but it’s not like jf.mp is NEVER used or landed. now when you do use it, you’ll get some more damage. i don’t see the downside.
his other major problems (re: bad match ups) have been nerfed and he’s been buffed through the new system mechanics.
s.mp has a good hitbox, that’s why. it extends past the hurtbox. s.mk and s.hk can often trade or get stuffed during footsies but s.mp won’t have that problem. it was too slow to use before but now if other characters want to fish for bison’s limbs they have to deal with the fact THEY might get stuffed instead. i’ll take a 90 damage footsie tool like that no problem
now i’m not saying things can’t be better but honestly i’m not sure everyone is looking at the whole picture. at the very very VERY least bison is going to be a GODLIKE counter picker for fireball characters, and that’s still selling bison short as a whole
Shadow OS,
So what it seems like is that while he does have a bit more damage options for his more unsafe (non-BnB) attacks, the mp buff really doesn’t effect his damage output for his ground game, given that he can already link a c.mk after a c.lk,s.mk X2.
In effect the only way these buffs matter is making it not so easy to abuse him from the sky. Great, but it doesn’t do so absolutely, and it doesn’t effect his overall strategic flaws, which are the MAJOR problem with him. I just don’t see anything game changing.
And as for him owning fireball characters, he never really had problems against fireballs anyway so this buff (EX SK) is really inconsequential.
alright then. sit there, ignore almost everything of value put forth, and pout.
high level sf
What your saying is true, but its still a gamble letting certain characters (any shoto) get that close.
They can generate offense much faster off a low forward hit confirm. Ill risk a trade with st:mk/rh in order to keep them at bay, not saying st:mp is bad but its not going to have that BIG of an impact on footsies at higher levels of play.
If it does capcom will nerf it…
Shadow,
I didn’t ignore everything you said, but I just don’t see how having a bit more situations, effectively turning down the dial of all out areal abuse, that Bison currently incurs, addresses the overall FUNDAMENTAL problems of the character.
No word on a Nightmare Booster buff? Needs a frame buff a bit so we can at least try to anti air with it!
Well using E.Ryu’s U2 as a guideline it needs to have a 9 frame startup in that case his U2 goes into fill animation at light DP range raw and it is a great AA ultra
Nice video Shadow, will the back throw, OS teleport back still work against Honda since the Teleport is being nerfed?
Back throw>whiff cr.mp>jump in HP>teleport back>???
Any way to punish with an Ultra after this?
The only person I can AA is a retard Guy player.