I agree too, im not quitting the character but I will be mastering a 2nd. It just seems likes hes address all the scrubs and not the real Bison players like we are. Who the hell with any sense wants to give Bison a AA like a SRK? Its just a waste of time to even address anything on that level when theres real issues that need addressing.
Quit the game, no. Bitching because we ended up getting the short end of the stick yet again? Yes
This. It’s remarkably frustrating that Tampa’s statements got the visibility they did, but I’d imagine Eventhubs is very interested in playing nice with Capcom, so they’re not going to showcase more widely held and more representative perceptions of the Bison changes; “It’s all good. Nothing to see here. Move along.”
I think every serious Bison player owes it to themselves to put in REAL time with other characters, in a serious and sustained way, with the mindset on switching. That this character has received critical nerfs in every iteration of the game is bizarre and revealing. Clearly, there’s a logic behind it at Capcom, but we can only speculate as to what that is. I’ve put in a lot of time with Bison, and his limitations and faults are obviously clear. But also, I just recently started picking up Chun-li, another mid tier character, and her limitations also jump right out at you (but she is FAR LESS linear and boring than Bison is, so that’s very redeeming; also, she’s also got a moveset that clearly makes players nervous and isn’t so susceptible to things as ridiculously dangerous for Bison as a random neutral jump). And then two things occurred to me: characters that do one thing really well are better than characters that do a few things sort of ok, and this game is clearly all about big damage characters. Ok and one more thing, there are characters in this game with no gaping weaknesses (and I do not consider low health a gameplay weakness). Of course by creating glaring weaknesses for some characters (“jump in absolutely free on Bison all day!”) and none for others, Capcom helps pick winners and losers.
If you want to see the fruits of your labor in training and in practice through game play, you can only really do that with characters who make the most of every strike, and all of the top characters are better than average at doing this. But that’s of course a choice everyone has to make for themselves.
Despite Capcom’s repeated claims about balance, SSF4 CLEARLY plays favorites:
-QCF characters over charge characters
-characters with big momentum changing damage over “death by 1000 cuts” characters like Bison
-characters with big, inviting, glaring weaknesses (who “theoretically” have other compensatory moves) over those without them
I can’t see any logic behind SK nerf especially with Red Focus coming into play, If they made SK armor breaking move than I would understand. But as it stands now it is a change to make his pressure after blocked SK weaker even though his options after SK is where he landed most of his damage. Bison may be a better character overall now but still that doesn’t justify the nerf to SK considering it was already nerfed along with Cr.lk hitbox and red focus may prove to be an effective counter to it.
The teleport nerf is also “quite extreme” , according to people who tried the build, even though his teleport does not have many uses and can be option selected easily.
Overall they only addressed his damage problems , St.mp is really great since it work consistently compared with cr.mk and work against character with wired hitbox (Balrog, Seth…etc), his damage will be good now but he need just a small tweak on cr.mp pushback on hit and damage moved on SK first hit.
They should have addressed his ultra utility though , this is one of the most requested Bison changes and somehow they turned a blind eye on it even though it was mentioned in almost every page in the Capcom Unity thread. Ultra combo is a major game system that every character should benefit from in some form. Also they haven’t given any fix to skull diver even though the move seriously need some fix :(.
Unfortunately, this is the character we have chosen. This is also why I’ve been learning other characters lol. We always come back to Bison, though…
Just wait 'till the new metagame develops. What you said is true, which is why characters with momentum shifts / vortex are all being nerfed with the new mechanics, and big damage characters are either getting their damage decreased or their most common openings decreased or weakened.
This is all in favour of characters with a strong neutral game, like charge characters are. Also, Bison’s damage is going up, and his worst mathcups are (hopefully) being made a little more tolerable, so that can’t be bad.
Maybe it’s just me not being a fan of complaining just for the sake of it, but I just can’t see all this being bad news for Bison.
I main Vega from the beginning, he sucks so bad even in SSf4 AE 2012, however until now I still enjoy using him (my win rate in rank is 65%)
When I try Bison 3 months ago, I felt he is strong, better than Vega, he can create pressure, can escape hard situation, can help me win more…
When I face Bison, I-as Vega i feel it’s fucking hard to escape Lk SK trap because of being +0 on block, Cr.LK, throw pressures follow up…
So what I want to say here, if you guys are maining Bison at the moment
1- Use what you get to play, exploit him, even your character sucks at some points, you might still win consistently
2- Lk SK -1 on block is not a big deal for Bison, you should look at the whole picture, such as Character like Vega stuck in escaping Lk SK pressures, I think other characters feel the same
3- Play smartly, do not depending on some safe special moves
Prepare your anus.
I’ll come back to Bison if Capcom makes it so you can play that 3 vs 3 mode with only two players(CvS2 mode). I’ll use Bison as my second character.
Yeah, Bison seems really sweet in that format, for sure!
Its hard for Vega to deal with sk pressure…in the corner (as it should be), you didn’t start there. Bison had to do something right or Vega wrong to get put in that situation, so you deserve to eat a rep or two.
Vega can hang with bison in the neutral/air game, its not free at all, he has good buttons to stifle bison’s offense or down right lame him out.
Pro tip, the +0 on block wasnt the reason he got you in the corner to begin with.
This post is a prime example why this nerf came to be. People with their own inability to deal with a character so they ask for changes they dont comprehend.
,
It’s not like I dont know how to deal with it, but pls enlight me why you guys complaining about -1 on block so much ?
My opinion, game’s developers want to promote smart play, discourage lazy moves, so Adon’s special move get nerf and of course Lk SK pressure.
It’s not like we’re thinking it’s the end of the world, it was just so unnecessary it is mind-blowing.
^take a few minutes and examine bison as a whole please
bison’s worst enemy is someone that knows how to block. bison has no overheads, no mixups, no nothing. what he has are some very good pokes for whiff punishing and some fine getaway tools. so, how does bison get an opponent to start pushing buttons and not have himself walked into the corner? 0 sk. the fact that it’s 0 means he can get a chip or provide some light harassment and make the opponent uncomfortable. the push back also gives bison more space to himself or gradually pushes the opponent closer to the corner.
the 0+chip+pushback is what makes opponents come towards bison and how he will get the rest of his damage. he will spend the rest of the game looking for ways to hold onto the life lead by chipping and punishing the mistakes of an uncomfortable opponent. sk also the only way for bison to apply any real pressure what so-ever if he gets a life deficit, and not a very good way to come back since bison is forced into repetitive and more predictable motions
you say the devs want to discourage “lazy” moves, but the whole concept of bison in this game is based around l.sk being 0 on block. now that sk is not 0 on block it’s not as uncomfortable for the opponent to walk forward or challenges bison’s pokes after the sk and reverse the pressure entirely. the buffs are nice and i really think the 3 frame jabs are going to go a long way for bison, but complaining about sk being 0 on block would be like complaining about vega’s kara throw. vega’s kara throw is his prime threat which sets him up for to get greater damage with his cosmic heal. take that away and people will no longer respect vega’s close up game… because he wouldn’t have much of one.
tools are not the only factor. mindset and how players react to the situation is also very important. if there’s no real pressure or real threat then opponents act differently, and the different mindset permeates through the MU, changing risk/reward/how the match is played entirely. for example, we all know we can bait out shoryus, but we also know for 2 bars the whole situation can be critically reversed. we think twice about doing anything meaty or challenging the opponents wakeup game, thus the entire flow of the match changes
eh, i went on longer than i wanted but there you have it. underplaying the sk nerf just means the person underplaying it doesn’t understand bison’s design
also adon’s special move is armour breaking, beats techs, can combo afterwards and ex is an overhead KD iirc soooooo that’s a little different. the nerfs didn’t effect the utility of jaguars, just small damage nerfs.
I was considering picking up Sagat for a secondary in case this doesn’t turn out good. Out of all recommended Sagat secondaries (Gouken, Akuma, Sagat, Rufus and Rose (I think). He’s the only one not getting nerfed? There’s also Gouken but I don’t like his wake up game. I don’t mind blocking, but his hitbox…
Also, the average Vega doesn’t know how to deal with Bison, and it’s a slight advantage to him in my opinion… You can easily outpoke him on the ground, and Vega can take him out of the air even though his AA sucks, cause Bison floats like a Kite.
You actually mix IAJKs and normal JKs
He has a Jaguar that kicks, but it’s no scissors.
No overhead? Ex Headstomp.
No mixup? Cross up psycho crusher.
No nothing? He has a hat.
SK -1 is not a big deal.
#Kappa
There you go Claw Strike.