M.bison USF4 , any Rumors of buff/nerf changes?

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
401

-Regarding cr.lp, it’s a quality of life thing. It’s like when they made scissors FADC +5 instead of +4, which didn’t open up any new combos, but it made comboing into jab a lot easier.

The only issue I have with the cr.jab buff is that the jab has really shitty range. But it will be really nice to finally be able to go for cr.lk cr.lp combos upclose instead of the old cr.lk, cr.lk links.

I agree with Shadow that Bison will be able to stutterstep much more effectively now, but I think that’s due more to the new st.mp buff than the cr.lp buff. The st.mp gives you more distance and time to link and gain charge.

-PC has two hitboxes. There’s the one in the front, which hits for 120/130/140 as usual. Then there is a longer hitbox that overlaps the first, but extends back all the way to his legs. This longer hitbox is the one that hits for 100 damage on the crossup. Basically it sounds like they added a juggle point to the second hitbox, meaning all juggles will hit for 100.

The thing is, since the first hit of PC knocksdown, and the second hit now juggles, that means PC will hit twice when it connects normally. People have already confirmed that this happens. But hitting for 140+100=240 damage is a really obvious buff, so they must have modified the damage on PC somehow. My guess is that they split the damage. An alternative is if they left the crossup at 100 damage, and changed the first hit to 20/30/40

-Hell attack buff means that the second j.mp floats the opponent just like the first one does, but you cannot juggle into everything after j.mpx2. The only new combo after j.mpx2 will be the second hit of PC because of its new juggle point. However, if you were to just randomly tag someone in the air with just the second j.mp, then you can juggle into anything as normal.

402

You are underestimating the concept of “practical” in a game like this. Cr.jab is not plinkable, so you’re forced to use a very situational 1-frame link, when you could simply link another cr.lk instead. It now enables you to land a much more damaging combo on a consistent basis.

If Bison could do 200+ damage off of a 3 frame cr.lk meterless combo already, then why are people still complaining about his damage? Yes Bison could do it already but if you count the times you dropped that combo and the times you landed it, you’ll realize it’s not worth it, as it’s averagely even less damage.

403

I never said it was absolutely useless I am just debating the people trying to over sell it. Yes making combos easier is a good thing, but it really doesn’t add anything either. On the scale of usefulness st.mp buff is a lot better, yet some are trying to hype this up just as much and I am trying to figure out why.

Something being unplinkable is a bad argument to use on me considering I do not plink do not understand it much, so didn’t bother retraining myself to use it. Yes I do know it gives you one more frame to link anything you plink. Do I drop combos sometimes? Yes I do, just as much as people who I know plink everything they can. Which btw I find hilarious.

So back to my original question: Is the only use for this buff basically making combos easier? Granted I am fine with that but I wish they would fix some of his useless stuff and stop nerfing random elements to appease scrubs

404

I wouldn’t say “easier”, I’d say “consistent”, which is much better. Because it was so situational, people avoided the cr.lk -> cr.lp link completely, and it was as if Bison didn’t even have that combo. People stuck with the 100 damage bnb cr.lk -> cr.lk -> cr.lk, but now, with cr.lp being 3 frames, it’s the same exact timing, and there’s no reason not to use it.

On the U2 subject, I wish they revamped it completely, I just don’t like the way they designed it. Here’s how I think they had in mind when designing that ultra: they initially wanted a fireball punishing ultra that went fullscreen, and so they came up with the fancy stomp startup animation. Then they realized it was too easy to avoid, because the opponent could just FADC the fireball and dash forward to go under Bison, or, if Bison expected it and landed a bit back, backdash to avoid it completely. So, to solve that problem they added a crossup hitbox that hit behind him: the new problem is, that crossup was too dumb, and to balance it out and make it less ambiguous, they added tons of startup frames.

But that’s okay, as long as it didn’t require a charge. However, turns out people complained that doing U2 after a throw was too 50/50, and against charge characters who lose the charge when crossed up, even if they blocked it they had trouble punishing it, so it was too much in Bison’s favour, and so they changed it to charge input. And now we are left with a shitty ultra that is good at nothing. Why? Because it was badly designed and badly planned from the start.

Assuming they won’t change the animation, I would make it like this:
-remove the crossup hitbox
-Bison jumps at a fixed trajectory, half screen distance, no more air-controllable, but with some tracking (like Adon’s U1)
-decrease the startup
-extend the stomp hitbox much further to prevent FADCing backward
-back to motion input

There. No bullshit, no gimmicks, just a fireball punishing ultra that actually punishes fireballs.

405

So with the new Hell Attack buff, will PP Ultra miss as much? Does it pop then up more or just the properties have changed?

406

PP will hit more because of the faster charge time. You get the ultra a soon as you land now where as before you had to wait a few frames on the ground. Still easier to land hell attack U1 but U2 should be more constant for sure. Seems I was hitting U2 off hell attack even when they were already kinda low in the air at CapCup and with testing in the Bison mod on PC.

407

SK FADC into cr.lp st.lp > follow up will also be very easy with a 3 frame jab … Will be very interesting to see on whom cr.lk > cr.lp > close st.lp > st.mp x special works … Probably the new dash in B&B with solid damage !!!

408

first knee jerk reaction to the 3 frame jab is that it will create easier FADC combos. so if you get the opportunity for a 3 frame punish you can go cr. lk or cr. lp xx scissor > FADC > cr. lp > close st.lp > far st.mp xx scissor/psycho. this is just a basic example that could potentially do 300ish damage. not sure the exact damage amount.

Also another potential combo. frame trap with close st. hp > cr.lk xx scissor > FADC > cr. lp > close st. lp > far st.mp xx scissor/psycho. Lot of damage potential and no 1 frame links. just some ideas for you guys.

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Yeah, I was looking at those FADC combos a lot as well. I hardly ever use them as it stands since I don’t feel confidant in my ability to land them consistently.

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CH close HP > St.mp x hk SK fadc cr.lp > St.lp > St.mp x hk SK … Will be easy and solid damage (>350) … Cancel into lp PC … Reset hp PC will be over 400 damage and 600 stun !!! If I don’t be wrong with the numbers … Very nice !!!

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One way to look at it is Ryu lands 300 plus damage off a dp FADC ultra. Now Bison gets the same kind of damage output off of his FADC combos plus you are going to get a lot of corner carry, or a lp psycho set up. Imagine 300 plus damage off a punish and putting them into the corner. Bison going to be a beast, or at least that is what I keep telling myself :slight_smile:

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Yeah, if we can make that kind of damage off of FADC combos, and land them more consistently, it will definitely be worth the meter usage. Right now it feels inconsistent and not worth the risk. Hell, even if you land your combo it still doesn’t feel like it’s worth the meter right now.

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Wasn’t SK -> FADC into cr.lp an already easy combo? To me, all this buff does is creating more combo opportunities from cr.lk.

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True … But now it is a very easy link and you have St.MP with 90 Damage + higher SK Damage !!! I really wished that we would at least get one SK with front loaded damage … Xp

415

You guys seen this? Its the first story on eventhubs right now. Dude talks about Bison and half the time hes talking about Bison having AA options on the level of a shoto. I was like WTF, no real Bison player has ever asked for that. I have no problems controlling the air now with Bison and its only going to get easier with a sped up C.HP. He speaks about Bisons SK buff but he doesnt talk about its only on the 2nd hit so for FADC it still sucks. Hell Attack buff is good but if they priority is still the same? Talking about no more brain dead SK but all shoto players option selecting SRKing PC rocket science now? Shit just pisses me off. Im glad this is getting such coverage though, hopefully Capcom takes notice.

Im happy aboutthe 3 frame jab, i can FADC with Bison very well but now i will be able to do it even better.

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I’ve never had problems AA with Bison outside of online, except against characters like Cammy, who are being nerfed anyway. Plus, he is a real Bison. He’s a Bison, from Tampa. Therefore he is a Tampa Bison.

I’m starting to think Bison will be okay, you just won’t be able to play the same (not sure against Guile still). It could be worse, you could be Fei Long.

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I mean, I agree that we shouldn’t be quitting the game because of the nerfs but I think the changes definitely warrant some bitching on the forums.

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Do I have to join that site to see the articles or is there some workaround?

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Eventhubs has all kinds of jquery scripts running in the background. If you have a ad blocker on it redirects you.

You can block the scripts or turn off the ad blocker for their page…and get loud obnoxious as hell ads.

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Tampa Bison can kiss my entire ass.