Team Rolento, all aboard!
Better complain to capcom about the -1 SK. This is not the final build, adjustments will be made! Do all you can to pressure capcom.
But we have no pressure with the -1 nerf Kappa
A video from a bison player.
I really can’t believe how Capcom did this and how they are seriously trying to get us to just go along with this shit. FUCK THAT!! When I see Combofiend, most likely this weekend, I am going to tell that dude we are NOT happy and this is NOT what we asked for and they can make a dog and pony show for everyone else if they want to but WE in the Bison community aren’t buying it!
Even with the -1 SK removed…lets say they did that for us…he STILL isn’t tournament viable! Ok, so they can’t abuse him with Jumps anymore. Cool. But who at the tournament level REALLY did that to Bison consistently? I have seen some of the neutral jump shenanigans at the tournament level, but nothing game breaking because I don’t see it often enough. A good Sagat player for instance doesn’t have to jump at Bison unless he has huge frame advanatge and angle or is completely safe anyway. If Sagat basically just stands there he can beat Bison because he has tools for days with MUCH higher damage output than bison does, even considering the buffs. He still can’t Ultra you, so he STILL can’t comeback. And if he can’t come back than he isn’t tournament Viable. He is still ground ONLY. He will be dominated once again.
Not only did Capcom screw over the character while they buffed the hell out of other characters, but they also didn’t even improve his game so he is a more fun character to play. We get ground only bison AGAIN!!
People are acting as if SK being -1 is the only punishable special move in the game. Guys, are you serious? Are we really complaining about -1 being unsafe now? I never saw anyone complain about Ryu’s hadouken, which is much more punishable.
-1 is still EXTREMELY safe for a special move. Of course it’s punishable by SOME moves, however a) any chun player who uses 4 bars just to punish a scissor kick is an idiot and b) yes zangief can punish him but remember he’s getting nerfed as well, not to mention delayed wakeup weakens him tremendously, plus he can’t jump on Bison for free anymore now that he has a somewhat reliable AA.
Look at the whole picture. SK being -1 is not what we should complain about, and overall, Bison is getting BUFFED not nerfed. The only problem with this update imo is that many other already-good characters are getting sooo much more stuff than Bison, when he was one of the characters that needed buffs the most.
That’s why I said pressure capcom to CHANGE that stat. Get in touch with combofiend. Mail those who CAN get in touch with combofiend and complain about what you don’t like. Can’t you all get Kim1234 to give combofiend the message about the outrage of Bison changes? Because this is NOT the final build.
It being punishable by some supers/ultras is one thing, but the real problem is the increased ability of opponents to stuff the thing you do after the Knee Press is blocked. -1 means it’s the opponent who can apply pressure if they have a 3f move. This is such a problem because without this pressure, Bison is just a worse Vega. If -1 is the price to pay for a good anti-air then I never would have asked for one in the first place. First and foremost Bison was a character who applied pressure and dealt big damage once he got a good hit. His Knee Presses were negative on block but he had other things to make him good. SF2 versions had touch of death combos. CvS2 had paint the fence. That was how Bison was made viable. Instead of having that strong comeback ability in SF4, they gave him a safe pressure tool and a good poke + anti-jump. Those are the two things Bison players relied on because everything else was gimmicks. And now short Knee Press is back to being disadvantageous but he isn’t getting that comeback ability he used to have(I’m ignoring EX Red Focus at the moment because it’s freaking 4 bars + Ultra).
Mate , the nerf will be okay if they gave him something worthwhile that change his gameplan completely but they didn’t. The nerf also seems completely unnecessary with red focus coming into play. Also they already nerfed it in AE with cr.LK hitbox changes to be easier to trade with. It is not like SK lead to anything big or it is + on block. Sakura has an ex move that is armor breaking (So no red focusing it), projectile invincible ,lead to both ultras and it is + on block. She has this on top of her amazing damage and anti-air and far reaching overhead. Bison in his arsenal of moves does not have anything as good outside his pokes which is borne to trade.
We all know that Bison is maybe the least benefiting character from the new systems mechanics. His Ultras are not very useful so dual ultra options will do nothing to him. I don’t know how Red focus will be useful to Bison considering that he is heavily depended on meter. The delayed wake up mechanics is nice to have but he does not struggle in wake up as much as other characters so I don’t think it will be huge thing for him say as to Balrog and Guile.
The thing is , they took his best move (His defining move) and removed the move defining characteristics. They gave him nothing as good to compensate this nerf. While other characters got what they need and plus.
If chun li is setting on a life lead with super what can you do with USF4 Bison against USF4 Chun li ?
Of course I know, it was just a poke to anyone who thinks that -1 = unsafe. I still don’t think -1 is as bad as people think though, but we’ll see.
Dude,
Teleport is ASS now. Why not nerf Akuma’s? He has an AA already, a normal and a DP. Bison get’s a AA and now he must lose the teleport completely, which was already the worst in the game? That is just insain! And the point about SK is not about how punishable it is. The point is what it does to his pressure. What about follow up moves like S.HK and other normals? What about lk loops and shit like that? Against some characters, as it is, he already has trouble beating out jabs while SK is 0 on block. Now he is completely dominated in those situations.
As for his buffs, well yeah they are ok, but not game breaking. He basically is the same character and will ultimately suffer from the same problems as before. Ok, so you can’t jump at him for free anymore. But did you really need to to beat Bison? No! So nothing has changed. He still can’t comeback and his damage output isn’t all that. Its just not as shitty as it was.
lololololololol My bad bro.
@exogen
I already said I know it’s about the pressure, I just wanted to make people aware that being -1 does not mean “unsafe”, given all the videos that are popping up showing how “easy” it is to punish it.
But yeah, the problem with the update right now is that there are characters with so many more tools than others, and they’re buffing them much more than it’s needed, while leaving Bison with changes that are mediocre compared to what they’re doing with Ken, Vega, Balrog, Guile, Yang… At least they said they’re not finalized.
I know I already said this in other topics but, what I fear is that they’re afraid of buffing Bison because he would be too hard to deal with at low levels. Take EX Psycho for example: it’s a shitty move at high levels, and barely reliable for what it is, but at low levels where people don’t know how to OS or punish it, it’s almost broken and very spammable, and it’s basically a safe srk. Same thing with teleport. I say this because I remember when I started playing, that move gave me so much trouble. In comparison, Akuma didn’t give me nearly as much trouble.
Now I know this is not the right thing from our point of view, but from a developer’s standpoint, Bison is stronger than Vega because he has a “safe reversal”, so it only makes sense to nerf his scissor kick pressure.
And that begs for the question… Why not making EX PC much more unsafe, but with better startup? Make him less scrub friendly, if that’s the problem for Capcom.
-1 scissor kick will be fine IMO. Scissor pressure is not cr.lk xx scissors ad infinitum, and this will hopefully make most Bison players actually realize that. Bison is in perfect whiff punish position due to the pushback from scissors in most cases after it lands, considering how he also has longer limbs than most of the cast, this will mean very little in terms of changing his corner pressure game for good Bison players.
In SFxT he has -2 on block lk scissors and he also has a 4 frame startup cr.lk, yet he is still just fine due to his long pokes and good pushback on scissors. (and even better due to the boost combo system which allows him to convert to real damage from his pokes… but unfortunately in SF4 he is stuck with whatever damage he gets from a single poke, except now his st.mp will be cancellable, making his corner pressure that much scarier damage wise)
Guys, there is hope… :")
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That is very interesting… The promise of the game is exciting and I do hope they achieve it but I am not sure they are close from what I have seen from their first round of changes…
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Not everyone…
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Oh yeah, I see what you did to Ken and Sagat (Which were quite good to begin with)…Balorg… You guys are very true to what you trying to do…
Hahaha , a bunch of useless buffs (Ultra,HS,DR) and small buff to his anti air (nice to have but after testing it, it still trade 98% of time) and a much needed damage buffs to fix his lackluster damage potential. None of it change his gameplan which is heavily depended on his SK as the core of his liner offense.
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Hhm…that makes things crystal clear…
Its more that the nerf is not needed more than anything. Bison really didn’t get anything big enough to really justify it.
You have pretty much made my argument for me, no real reason to do -1 on LK SK as Bison in SF4 has much much less than in that game. The LK SK nerf just smacks of listening to scrubs.
The fact that Bison was the only character brought up during that interview means there’s a good chance they’re going to look over his changes more carefully, which is a good thing.
Bison should be broken. It’s Bison, damn you Capcom! It took Ryu and Ken at the same time to kick his ass in the animated movie!
Would rather complain about Cammy/Ken tbh… and Vega. He’s viable = suddenly broken.
Throw out dem normals like Chun Li!
Cannot stand Rolento… or Hugo! Especially Hugo, he could be Z tier and I’ll still hate him.
More Bison giving up his advantage for no reason whatsoever than “the plot demands it”