I’m glad this is getting a fix in AE to be a charge move. Atm the only punishers I can do are air grab, air roundhouse, and if I’m lucky, cr.mp xx neckbreaker. I wanna Ultra 1 this fool.
you are on the right track, but that setup is a little loose… there has to be a delay in there somewhere in order to make the cr.mp not wiff.
also, try your best to find ones that have a hk dash crossup in them, reason being because meatys arent that great in sf4 cause of the really lenient reversal window, so in this case its best to hedge our bets by ground crossing the opponent before hand which will make it that much harder for them to get out a reversal, also in cases like dictator and honda it really limits there reversal options since it takes there l-r charge away and leaves them only with a d/u charge.
an ok setup for crossup meaty cr.mp against bison would be something like:
neckbreaker> mk cd> hk cd> cr.mp.
there are no gaps in that one iirc and if you have decent timing you can actually connect meaty cr.mp with a far lp and then a st.mk xx >>> you get the idea.
the cool things about certain meatys against certain wakeups is that they will actually put your opponents character in a standing position, which is very nice.
-dime
Hay guise. Long time no see. Long story short, I’m playing in a tourney this Saturday and I haven’t played SSF4 in months. I need to know everything new about Ibuki since then.
hmmm… new stuff:
knock them down, try not to get owned by single pokes.
the end.
lol
naw the only really new thing is that ibuki has a safejump versus shoto srk:
neckbreaker>wiffed cr.mp> jumpin mk.
it will work versus all shoto srks (ken,ryu,akuma dan) and i think against cammys… but not sure about cammys.
the opponents dp will wiff, not get blocked, good timing needed though, the cr.mp needs to be as close to 2-3 frames after ibuki recovers from breaker, plink it if you want.
-dime
Yo bro, long time no see 
I’ve spent a lot of time watching/studying Iyo, who appears to be the new god(dess?) Ibuki in town. More importantly, he’s one of the only Ibuki’s I’ve seen that doesn’t rely on vortex, but instead actual, normal, blockstring pressure.
I’ve picked up some stuff from him, like f+MK overhead , st.LP , st.MK xx special for a knockdown. Or if the 1 frame link is too difficult, f+MK overhead , st.LP xx EX tsumuji. Or using f+LK xx EX tsumuji in the middle of a block string to catch crouch techers. This can possibly even be used in footsies vs stuff like shoto low forward.
Is any of this stuff new?
Edit: Apparently f+LK usage is not new at all and f+MK is reaction dp punishable, although I’ve been using it on my friend’s Chun to great extent.
Just read up to page 115 of the matchup thread. Damn that shit got long. Gonna go to sleep and read more when I wake up.
I still use f + mk myself. Not too much so that they can react to it, but the plus frames make me fall in love with it.
It has some weird effects though. For example, on Viper, if she is crouching and you’re too close to her, the f + mk will whiff on her and cross her up. Also, if she does a sweep, and you do f + mk too close, like it did that telportation bug that happens with Makoto vs. Rufus. It also goes over Honda’s headbutts, and even stuffs them with great timing.
EDIT: Upon mastering the new unblockable with Cammy, I’m gonna go and test with Ibuki to see if she has a similar unblockable. I really have a feeling that she does vs the characters involved. I’ll record and keep you guys posted with my findings.
Like I said earlier, I was talking about that she may have an unblockable. Sorry for the double post.
I think I may have found one.
neckbreaker knockdown, walk forward one pixel, j. lk aimed for their face/forehead area.
What happens is that if they block forward they get hit crossup, if they block backward they get hit in the front. I’ve gotten this to work on all shotos so far.
All of the shoto’s dp’s get stuffed reversal, or non reversal. All Ultras whiff or are stuffed. They also cannot focus dash out since it leaves you at a distance where you can reaction sweep. Akuma can’t teleport since you can reaction nb/U2 it easily.
I will try and record it today, or I’ll just record it when I get a chance this weekend. I also believe that she can get this situation from a tsumuji knockdown, as well as a neutral throw. I’ll play around with those wheni have time.
F+mk is still one of ibukis best tools, iyo uses it like its going out of style. yeah he does use far lp after it, but only in certain situations. its best followup is F+lk. F+lk after a hit is a 2 frame link, and unlike far lp it has no hitbox issues as far as range is concerned.
personally i like acquas ibuki better than iyos… acqua is more precise than iyo, and acqua uses more of ibukis overall toolset than iyo does… acqua seems to have both the better poking game as well as the better vortex. iyo is simply the better player and he has better overall reads than acqua. iyo is the master of making high risk/high reward work in his favor, but its his slightly inferior play that makes him have to resort to such tactics.
oh yeah, iyo is dirty as fuck as well. nigga will swindle a win any chance he gets. 
overall i think both players are “required reading” as far as studying others ibukis playstyles.
oh yeah and one more thing: motempest BAR NONE has the best ibuki vortex that ive seen. BAR NONE. he has more tricks/gimmicks and setups than ive ever seen any ibuki use on vid. if anyone can get a game or so on xbl with him id suggest it, you will probably learn alot from his vortex.
-dime
Whatttt Cammy has an unblockable move now?
There’s a video of it on the front page of featured youtube vids on SRK. It only works on 5 characters and it’s technically a glitch that forces those 5 characters to block within 1 frame of a mix up or get hit. Which generally makes it unblockable.
chun has lots of “unblockables” (including a very good one against cammy) the story on these just like coos coos said is that if you HOLD in either direction you cant block, however the trick that most people dont know is that if you TAP in either direction, you will be able to block IN EITHER DIRECTION.
chun has the only true unblockable that i know of which is against ryu and ken in the corners after a forward throw, and against fuerte after a forward throw midscreen. ken and ryu can focus out, fuerte has to LET THE STICK GO TO NEUTRAL and chun will pass right through him, but if chun anticipates fuerte doing that, she gets a free combo with a different button…
but all that was in vanilla… dont know if its still in super… the one against cammy is though.
unblockables are VERY GOOD for obvious reasons… lol
-dime
Yeah Dime is correct. The only way that they can get out of it is to tap block or wait a frame then block. I think the discovery of that is pretty big though since even it if can be blocked, it still shuts all of the options down when it comes to shotos. So that in itself is pretty buff.
Here is my contribution to the Ibuki boards
[media=youtube]v85hvgfCa2k[/media]
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Basically punish everything hard. You got two ultras that could do that well, as well as really powerful combos. Don’t just settle for the st x mk x neckbreaker if you could do more! AA into super instead of w/e!
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Make the mixups hurt alot. Mixing up your mixups (like not only using kunai, but command dash as well as whatever) give you a better chance of success. If Abel can roll through someone’s wakeup and hitconfirm with a slow move into ultra, I don’t see why Ibuki can’t do the same when her CD is faster and her attacks are way faster. As a matter of fact, I already do that. If not an ultra, at least a devastating combo.
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Hit confirm into either lk or mk tsumiji and then use that to go to neckbreaker. I hate it when I see a neck breaker combo that only does 200 dmg (cr lp x cr lpx st lp x neckbreaker) when it could and should be doing 300-380 dmg. I also hate seeing neckbreakers that get blocked cause they couldn’t hit confirm it.
After hitting a lk tsumiji and noticing that the opponent is ducking doesn’t mean you end there. You are at + 3 frames and can continue the pressure if you know what you are doing. If you hit a mk tsumiji on a crouching opponent, depending on your distance you can use that to hit confirm into spin kick x combo ender!
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Don’t just cr jab the opponent away. Finds ways to keep the pressure up like SJC kunai or just jump insta kunai, dashing in. Learn her frame traps! Cr lp (on block) AND lk tsumiji (on hit) into st mk will be a 2 frame gap which is perfect IMO for a frame trap. After a lvl 2 FA st mp has a 1 frame gap or Cl HK has a two frame gap. Know when you have plus frames on a blocked kunai, know when to grab to reset, or cl lp for a frame trap.
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After a blocked tsumiji you don’t have the same options open as a tsumiji that hit. Not only does a blocked tsumiji push you further away, but it leaves you at less frames, than on hit. I could go into more detail if you want.
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As for a followup after U2, what I do is regular dash in. From there I am at plus frames… but I am just a bit too far to hit with st mk. I think cr HK will hit. Also for those who haven’t noticed… U2 always puts the opponent IN the corner ALWAYS, no matter where you are, so from there you have to know how to keep your opponent in the corner, to be able to use it to your advantage.
- Yep obviously
- cd on wakeup is a good idea. But then there’s the problem of spacing/setups. Abel’s setups are already clear cut and figured out. We’ll have to experiment around a bit.
- If you really can get those 1 frame links, without plinking, and online, 100% consistently like that then kudos to you, your execution is gdlk. I try to do tsumuji loops anytime I can as well. Also I noticed you using f+LK instead of st.LP after mk.tsumuji. Any reason why? Does f+LK have more range?
- Agreed
- Yes do please
- I usually hk.cd and begin st.LP pressure.
Your video showcases a lot of noobs (like that Ryu mashing dp and getting a super, lol, no offense to your skill or anything). I’d like to see some of these tricks work against better opponents, and especially in an offline setting. Sorry, it just appalls me when I see you get a free forward jump kunai after a blocked lk.tsumuji. Not even an insta kunai. And Boxers doing cr.HK when you’re clearly focusing.
I saw lots of excellent st.MP usage. Kudos. Btw, st.MP , st.MK is a 1 frame link. How are you dropping this when you’re linking all of these tsumuji loops? lol
Nice video and pressure!
Basically what mingo said. Those players you were fighting clearly weren’t good. When you fight better players the match revolves around 3 things; zoning, footsies, and mix ups. It wont just be endless frame traps because good players already know your frame trap setups and they will just block or take a chance and reversal you. BTW I also liked the the use of your st mp, thats something im going to have to use a lot more in my strings
As for the players. I knew it I should have mentioned something about it. Some of the players were noobs, BUT I have used these tactics against 5000 pp and over 10,000 BP players and they work, except for one tactic in particular which I should specify (attacking after blocked lk tsumiji, it can work, but only if the opponent doesn’t know which tsumiji you used). I just decided to show tactics instead of me playing vs good players, since that is what’s important. I have also tested some of these tactics against good players offline, but I need alot more tests. I have mainly been getting positive results everywhere. The hien setups are really good, especially since you can mix them up with lk CD (I rarely use this one), SJC kunai, and mk tsumiji.
Also in the Ryu section for example, there were a couple of different Ryu players, so not all of them were noobs. Also I make them look like noobs when they get caught with everything, but they were relatively good players… except for a few, which I bet you can guess.
Please understand that the purpose of the video is to display Ibuki’s techniques.
@ mingo- For some reason, I get random lag spikes when I play, and different players have different lag, so adjusting takes time sometimes. Also tsumiji loop links are so easy. Its after a hit confirm, so once you see your combo hit into tsumiji, you can just loop it, whereas the st mp is also harder to hit confirm by itself.
@ Niko- Honestly if they do use a reversal and it hits, I lose like 150 life for example. If they miss I do about 300 dmg back to them and put them back in the vortex, or just U2 them. Most of the good players WILL block after playing me. Once you punish a reversal for so much damage, they tend to block more.
@ Everyone else. As for the tsumiji tactics.
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As Mingo pointed out, after a blocked lk tsumiji, YOU are at -4. That means that you block and pray that the opponent can not reach you within that time. If you mix it with MK tsumiji on block where you are at + 0 then there are things that you can do. Depending on the distance you can use spin kick x lk tsumiji, which is a frame trap or jump in low kunai, or just jump in, you could also use spin kick x hien x super, or f+ mk. Basically after a blocked mk tsumiji you have options, and if the opponent thinks you did mk tsumiji instead of lk tsumiji then you can probably do something after a blocked lk tsumiji. If you punished someone for doing something after a blocked mk tsumiji then it increases the chance, unless they can tell when you do a mk or lk tsumiji.
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When using mk x mk tsumiji or f+ lk x lk tsumiji on block, there is a frame trap in between, forcing the opponent to either block or mash reversal. If they do anything else such as jump, backdash, walk, jab, grab, they will get hit. Its good that it takes out back dash as well, so players will have to be careful when they are back dashing or they will get hit anyways. Although I do not show it here, I have used U2 to punish backdashes before, so if you predict a backdash use that U2.
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On hit lk tsumiji has +3 and mk tsumiji has +4 BUT lk tsumiji does 50 dmg X 2 AND leaves you closer to the opponent. MK tsumiji on the other hand has +4 and only does 35 X 2 AND leaves you farther away from the opponent. This means that st mk after these moves IS a frame trap (in AE with 5 st mk it most certainly will be). If you ever hit a close MK x mk tsumiji which can be done after a st mp up close then you can follow up that attack with spin kick x finisher. If you ever hit a close MK x lk tsumiji which can be done after a st mp up close then you can follow up that attack with st lp x st mk x finisher.
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Understand that in general st mk leaves you CLOSER to the opponent so doing any move after st mk, one should account for this, which is why some of these setups work the way they do.
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Once the opponent gets caught in the tsumiji frame traps or any of her frame traps in general, it allows you to do things like jump in insta kunai, or mk x SJC insta kunai. That can also be mixed in with forward dash cr HP. If they expect a dash in you use a jump in insta kunai or MK x SJC insta kunai OR mk tsumiji OR lk CD (NOT HK CD). If they expect the jump in Kunai or MK then use a dash in.
MK beats everything except for reversals and backdash. MK x tsumiji will lead to a knock down on hit and will take out back dash as well. MK insta kunai has the same properties as jump in Kunai except it is WAY more difficult to execute and is by far the most difficult things for me right now, BUT it is far more rewarding since it comes out after the mk which forces the block right away so they don’t jump. If you get a CH from the mk you can also combo into the insta Kunai into a combo, BUT that is insanely hard to do lol.
Insta Kunai beats everything except for jumps, reversals, backdashes, and precise attacks BUT That could be mixed with a delayed Kunai if they backdash AND if you catch them it leads to a very high damage combo and if they block, you are at advantage and up close. This technique is not hard to do as well.
Other moves that are extremely reliable into SJC kunai but is hard to hit with is cr mp (due to high start up), cr lp or cr lk (don’t reach after the tsumijis unless they crouch).
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Oh yeah for those who don’t know. Cr HP forces the opponent to stand which means that cr HP insta kunai into cl lp works easier and on those who cl lp miss on like Guy. Also after neckbreaker, if you cross up the opponent and attack meaty they are forced to stand ON hit, which means that cl lp will NOT miss on rose, guy, blanka, C viper.
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When I get super I cannot SJC into insta kunai so I try to get rid of it ASAP. Cr lk Hien probably works best since after you attack someone low they want to block low. The other reason why my other hien setups work is probably cause it sounds like she is doing a CD and it may look like it as she rushes forward. Another setup which I don’t show here is after a blocked Kunai, when it looks like you are going to grab, you jump back and use kunai x super to catch their grab or OS tech attempt.
- The players I played could definitely tell what tsumuji I was using. I’d say they look out for it like they look out for the different Honda headbutts, except that besides just hearing different sounds for each, you see a different (slower/faster) animation and different spacing. That should be enough to give it away unless they’ve never played an Ibuki before.
Your opponent will NOT be throwing out random reversals in hopes that you were about to continue your pressure after tsumuji. All of my opponents were BUFFERING their reversal or waiting to do jump back fierce on REACTION to shit like insta kunai after a tsumuji. This nonsense about random reversals and not trying to read/see your pressure game only pertains to fighting people online with lag.
- After some testing in training room, I found mk.tsumuji , f+LK to be very very spacing dependent and character dependent. ie: after a blank point TC4 (1hit st.MP) xx mk.tsumuji, you’re out of range for f+LK to hit on a crouching Boxer, but not on a crouching Dictator.
This stuff about pressure after tsumuji sounds great on paper, but in reality it should only be used sparingly (against good players offline). For example, what’s stopping them from simply backdashing or holding up back? There aren’t many good ground option selects at this range and you’ll basically just have to buffer U2 or neckbreaker and press it on strict reactions. And what to do if they don’t push any buttons? For example, let’s say you do mk.tsumuji , f+LK. But f+LK will whiff against Boxer, and he can whiff punish with cr.MP.
Tsumuji loops and 1frame link jabs are no problem for this man. See lk.tsumuji hit? Just loop it!
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I agree that good players will know which I why I agreed that that tactic probably won’t work well after a blocked lk tsumiji.
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I mentioned that I AM NOT focusing on hitbox stuff YET because in AE hit box stuff may be changed/ fixed. This was just to demonstrate stuff that is possible. Also just because f + lk may not work on balrog or 10 other characters doesn’t mean its not a viable tactic for the rest. Just make yourself a chart to know what works on who like I did.
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When people get hit from the tsumijis you are at plus frames and can frame trap them for jumping or w/e. For backdashing, there are other things that you can do, like U2, hien x super (depending on when they back dash), forward dash combo. Forward dash will also work if they aren’t pressing buttons and you can go back into pressuring.
If you are talking about a blocked tsumiji, then yes the options aren’t as great. If they are just holding jump you can sweep them with the last hit of mk tsumiji, if they are back dashing, then yes U2 or forward dash will work. If they are blocking forward dash can work well as well. Sure good players may not do random DP and can buffer them for jump kunais, but you can still bait DP. Trust me, these tactics do work, and not just on paper. I bet if you try it, then you will see where I am coming from. If people are getting hit by canon strikes which have 12 frame start up (not just from up close where it looks too close where they grab) then why shouldn’t people be getting hit by SJC kunais that only have 7 startup once in the air? The stun is not the same and the lag between the two aren’t the same, but from the ground till the actual moves hits, seems fairly similar to me. Not to mention that you could SJC into an insta kunai
Besides, I should not be the only one testing this. You guys should be testing this as well. Use those + frames and try out what I am telling you!
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Publishing that chart somewhere would be greatly helpful to us.
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Again these aren’t option selects. You’re relying on reactions and doing really risky things like U2 and hien xx super. For U2 you also have to keep in mind your opponent’s type of backdash. For example, Ibuki and Chun both have an airborne part of their backdash, where if your U2 hits them during this phase, they’ll just simply be reset, and then you get punished.
Canon Strikes can be done on the very first frame (or near first frame) off the ground. I’m pretty sure there’s a minimum height to be doing insta kunais. Unless there’s another reason why the timing is quite different from TKCS.
Jaja, I’m going to make another chart when AE comes out so just wait till then.
- You are right. I don’t use OS, and they are not OS as you said. I don’t plink either and I don’t use a stick, so I am probably missing out lol. I don’t think super is punishable on block so hien x super shouldn’t really be that risky. It looks like Chun’s super will only hit if she does it reversal and in the corner.
As for punishing backdash with U2, Only Rufus/ Sagat/ Gen/ and Fei long have ground frames at a number higher than 20 so doing it on reaction against these characters may be more tricky. But if you train yourself to do it on reaction on someone with 20-22 frames like Vega, then you will learn how to do it against most of the case. Some people have more room for error as well like 19-23 is average I would say. The good thing about U2 is that it is 9 frame startup so it much more reliable to use on reaction, as opposed to neckbreaker.