eh!? lemme boot this up!
EDIT: whoa I was completely wrong! I wonder what made me think this was the case this whole time…
EDIT2: It was Cammy… I hate this match-up so much!
you guys are silly.
such a silly thing so say =)
I agree with your post.
Also the same thing happened to me in these forums and the Vega forums. Makes me wonder if I should post all the good info that I found.
The funny thing is that now when people care for what I have to say in the Vega forums I am forced to quit him cause of the beyond stupid AE changes on him.
Cooscoos we should talk, I have also made some discoveries:)
As far as tc6 goes it is not garbage but it is a gamble just like any mixup. But if you cant sjc command dash you should definetly not use it.
Depending on the character, player skill, yomi, and the mood of the round you should adjust accordingly.
The lk command dash is good for keeping the pressure on opponents from a deceptive range where it looks like you cant do anything too scary. From here you’re in the perfect range for jab pressure and lk tsumuji.
The hk command dash is GREAT because you have alot of options off of it and it limits some chatacters reversal options. Some things I do with it are:
Meaty cr. Strong, st. fierce, or st. forward
Grab/raida/overhead mixup
Back dash tsumuji
Jump over the opponent. If they jump back they get tagged with an air grab if not you are in the perfect range for st. forward when you land
Or just block;)
New alt owns, first alt is kind of meh, only some colors look good. That aside, it’s retarded when she does the win pose where she pulls her mask off(much like her final win pose) and there’s no mask!
Just went to play some online games and got bored very quickly with Ken. His kara-throw was nearly invincible with the lag, and I kinda wish Ibuki’s was like it. Switched back to Ibuki and lost a match, but it was more fun losing. Well, maybe not fun, but it felt right.
ok guys i have a proposition for the ibuki forums in general:
a revamp of the current strategy thread as far as content is concerned. basically i was mistakenly running it like you would a chun or rog strategy thread… ie this beats this, that beats that, counter this strategy with that one etc etc. but the problem is that ibuki isnt a high priority character so she really isnt going to be dealing other characters poking games by out and ouit countering them.
so my idea is to turn the info in the s and m thread into basically a vortex thread since all of the characters have different wakeup timings and therefore need different setups for the same things.
two great examples would be the hitbox safejump NDRPWNDY found against shotos.
and one i found by watching jap ibukis versus sim:
backthrow>mk cd> jumpin mk. (may also work after an ex breaker)
this is basically a high crossup that REALLY looks like a regular crossup, it needs to be blocked regularly but crosses up, ibuki actually hits soime on his backside but for some unknown reason he cant block it like its a crossup. sim has answers for this… its just a trick… but its a GOOD trick.
i propose that we pool our collective knowledge to find as many instant kunai setups, safejumps as possible as well as any vortex mixups that just work, but the thing is to rememberm that alot of this stuff is character dependent. if we are using a vortex setup that is designed to work against say blanka… it will fail against like… ken and vice versa. like how urien in 3s has the noob unblockables that “kinda” work on most of the cast or he has character specific ones that ALWAYS work… but only versus that ONE character, the character specific ones are better but take alot more dedication cause there is alot more to learn.
its best in the s and m thread because that thread has the space for all of the individual characters.
anywho this task is monumental in that it will take creativity and lots of time to come up with stuff that actually works, plus its all going to have to be documented from what type of knockdown that ibuki uses and in all cases not involving neckbreaker/raida we will also ned to know the bnb used so that we know the spacing.
basically ibuki is a SET PLAY character. she is all about what you do post knockdown/launch, and how well you vary your knockdowns and followups… in fact some of her folowups can be as hard if not harder than the combos that came before them… just like uriens unblockable setups arenbt combos but many times require frame tight execution.
anywho i pose this cause its just too much work for me to do alone, i think its too much work for any one person to do alone. this needs to be a community effort, or atleast the organized effort of a few.
i also think this vortex info is peritinent cause it is what stands as the one thing that any ibuki can do to manually make there game better in the smallest amount of time. knowing safejumps versus the entire cast whether it be hitbox safejumps or frame based safejumps is a powerful tool.
i just need help cataloguing these things.
so do i have any volunteers that will be able to put in a half an hour to an hour a night to try and come up with stuff against certain characters???
if we do do this i think that we should do ibukis problem matchups first, namely rose pre-u2, chun, dic, and whoever else is setting ibukis pants on fire.
any takers?
-dime
I think It’s a good idea, but should we wait until AE?
I’d be willing to help but I think I would need some directional help as I wouldn’t know where to start.
But ndrpwndy and syn13 are both in my “area” so hopefully we could put our heads together.at casuals to help out
awesome :tup:
naw i dont think waiting till ae would do any good, wakeup times arent going to be changed for the most part except for adon. and varying wakeup times are our biggest hurdle to tight vortex setups, after that its dealing with individual reversals.
a good place to start is with ibukis standard safejump setups for most characters:
-
neckbreaker> wiffed cr.mk> jumpin hp or hk.
-
mk tsumuji knockdown> wiffed st.lk> jumpin hk or hp.
^^ those work against lots of characters but they dont work against everyone… i’d like to document which characters they DONT work against and you know, whether it works against everything but ultra or something like that.
other things to look for: perfect meaty setups for st.mk, cr.mp and close st.hk.
ive got a good meaty setup close hk against ryu that goes:
mk tsumujim knockdown>wiffed slide> mk cd> close hk.
it kills jab spammers/crouchtech and sets up a hk cd instead of mk cd perfectly.
i also have hk cd crossups that perfectly setup cr.mp as a meaty.
and a meaty from the oppoeits side of where the opponent was blocking is strong.
so yeah, things like that are a good start, also we can document problem reversals like how to os akumas teleport… you know which side we should do the motion in if we think akuma is going a certain direction.
i personally dont know punish vegas flip move when he does it as a reversal… the vegas i play will use either version of the move and it throws me off… ive tried os throwing the flips but i always wiff… so figuring out how to deal with that move would help me out against vega immensely, and may help out others as well.
alexlkd may be the one to ask about that.
things sucjh as those are good places to start documenting this kind of stuff.
also there are weird hitbox issues that we can take advantage of like theres a way to do a safejump crossup versus chun EVERYTIME with HK. thats extrememly powerful cause hk does a lot of damage and it hits so low to the ground that ibuki literally has forever and a day to combo off of it on hit, problem is that its hard to replicate… i havent found a suitable timing device yet.
-dime
I’m down to help with this. To start, I’ll go ahead and link you to the post I made in the vortex thread with safe jumps. I’ve already tested all of these on the characters involved.
http://shoryuken.com/f336/ibuki-vortex-thread-234117/index15.html#post9869778
I’m still testing things out as well. Right now I’m testing out b + mp as a confirm vs. crouchers. I know this will be null and void when AE comes out, but it’s pretty good.
Thats interesting I’ve done a hk crossup against abel too but I couldn’t duplicate it in training mode
nice to have you back and on board coos coos.
that blanka safejump is nice… i didnt know that safejump setup worked versus him. it was somewhat wonky when using j.mk though. however the j.lk is juicy. will definitely add.
versus guy though… i was wiffing my jumpins against him. is that the type of safejump you had going on? cause those types will rarely work versus good players… they can see the jump timing and adjust.
i tried the mk tsumuji kd into regular j.mk and superjump crossup lk and both wiffed unless i manually delayed before or after the st.lp
-dime
Yeah, the Guy set up is really wonky, since you do have to delay your jump a few frames before you actually jump. I’ve been trying to test for some better setups, it’s been a pain in the ass. If it helps, I aim for the thigh with the j. mk, and the back of the head for the j. lk.
The j. mk pretty much is supposed to hit meaty, so that you can block the up ball. Try and aim for his chest.
I can record if it helps.
oh believe me, i know. i still havent come up with jack shit against guile after breaker or mk tsumuji. except for 50/50 pseudo safejump/empty jump setups since empty jumps have no landing recovery they effectively are 2 frames faster, which allows ibuki a mixup between pressing a button or not… if she presses a button she is hittable but if not the flashkick/3 frame srk will get blocked and she gets a free punish… thats as good as it will get versus 3 framers… but guile is pissing me off cause we have a true frame based safejump against him… i just cant find it :arazz:
one thing that i need to explore further is that hk tsumuji gives less kd advantage… we may have an auto safejump setup from it, somewhere.
-dime
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trying different SJC i don’t think its anything new just trying new stuff the larger hit box characters
YEAH BOY!!! i found one versus guy:
mk tsumuji>wiffed F+lk> jumpin lk or mk or hk.
problem is that it is HARD AS FUCK to do… dont know whether or not to list it as viable, but it is the PERFECT safejump setup against guy versus his ex bushin kicks. ima test this recorded safejump aganst some other characters and see what i get.
-edit DOUBLE YEAH BOY!!! this setup works versus all of guiles flashkicks!! take that guile.
at this point i think im going to have to list this as a viable safejump even though its so hard to do, its the only true auto timing safejump that i know of versus guile and guy. its going to take alot of record to get this one down. its so hard cause F+lk has to be done on the first frame and its non plinkable… so basically its a 1 frame link.
-edit 2 also works versus all of djs upkicks (including ex) unfortunately i didnt block long enough to see if it works versus ultras/ supers in the record… but i think its safe to say that it probably does versus any that are 4 frame startup or less.
works on seth, viper,fei.
fuck it im a just catalogue who everyone it works on.
works versus ibuki, works VERSUS ROSE U2 (and gets rid of an orb) ibuki unthrowable by rose.
works versus t-hawk dp, not against ex 360 though, works versus gief lariat but not versus ex spd.
doesnt work versus cammy, sagat (j.mk wiffs, they get up to slow, but there reversals still wiff.)
yep, like i said the setups themselves can be as hard or harder than the actual combos.
-dime
Nice find cooscoos.
On another note. If you land a neck breaker and take one step back and jump in with lk or mk you can block any anti air reversal because your actually whiffing your attack. This is very tricky for your opponent to react to. Plus you can follow up with a crouch tech to go low. I have found this to work very well on all grades of players and it is also a slick setup for ultra 1 against gouken and balrog
I may as well start my video of certain tactics that I have been using.
As for Vega’s back flips: his back flips have insane lag both of them. Right after you wiff a move you can literally just walk up to him mk x neckbreaker. Or you could just use U2 since it has 9 frame start up and goes half screen. Most good Vega players will NEVER use the back flip UNLESS its to bait a DP or Ultra or something, or to dodge an ultra.
I do want to wait till AE though. Hitbox changes may make some techniques easier to do in AE version and make some moves not really useful.
Ok let me know if this is good;
Meaty c.mp setup on bison
After neckbreaker
F+lk > forward dash > c.mp
It was beating crushers, scissors, d.reverse, head stomp reversals
U2 and teleport got him out but I assume we can block u2
And punish on reaction teleport