Let's rock, baby! - The Viewtiful Joe Team/Assist Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
401

I’m referring to assuming we got a red voom out successfully. What we can then expect from that. As I’m testing diff assists essentially what I’m trying to figure out how to do is use a voom to protect an assist and use an assist to protect a voom.

I do believe jam session is critical to this. A blocked jam guarantees a red voom. So then we can voom zone during cool down till we can call plasma, for example, and red voom. It appears thus far that from a distance we want plasma (bolts would be better, but as someone noted above, some chars avoid it so easily). Really, unibeam is prob best, but comes w/ that awful caveat named tony. Missiles instead of plasma can kinda work differently, it appears we have to protect it with regular vooms then use the missiles dropping to set up a blocked jam (= red voom).

The end goal is an attempt to always have them blocking a voom or an assist. Anyone else play joe like this? Not necc for the whole game every game, but just something we CAN go into, a la dieminions call bolts, sj red voom stuff.

402

Missiles work for Joe but its not his best vertical assist for 3 reasons:

  1. Its hard for Joe to protect missiles with characters like Morrigan, Magneto, Zero, and Viper in the game. They also make it hard to call missiles too. It also causes Joe to be static.
  2. its virtually impossible to create conversions from missiles. Getting a combo off of missiles or some type of Oki is nearly impossible too.
  3. Missiles create a true blockstring. Some may see this at a good aspect but i see it as bad, because Joe always want people to Pushblock, it allows him to set up frame traps, it allows him to release a bomb, it also allows him to charge more voomerangs.

Pushblocking adds 21 frames of blockstun to opponents, Red Voomerangs cause 3 hits, which adds up to 63 frames of blockstun to opponents. Joe takes 66 frames to charge up and 69 frames from the air. If opponents pushblock wrong it results in a unscaled hit from the voomerang, because the first hit of a combo causes unscaled damage, and Red Voomerangs aren’t consecutive hits. With missiles you can’t achieve this.

Best Vertical assist for Joe is Jam session, Vajra, Then Missiles

403

Hi. My two cents in this Joe theory talk, although I am a very very bad Joe (just lab him for fun, I only have a few bnbs and that boxdash voomerang thingy slower than I know is possible, and I’ve played with Joe’s Dieminion style bolt-‘n’-voom, but I’ve always been playing other characters and haven’t gone and learned Joe all the way through).

Just for the record, my vote’s Joe/Strange/Dante, and I have a big textwall explaining why I think that’s Joe’s strongest team.

[details=Spoiler]
I think, just from what I’ve seen, the best (or close to it) Joe team is Joe/Strange(bolts)/Dante(jam session), in Strange and Dante you have two characters who can use XF3 and XF2 pretty well, and can easily punish a birthday with total deathly death.

Joe gets a vertical assist, a horizontal assist, jam lockdown for instant overheads/crossups, scary things, and bolts and jam seem scary combined with triple jump sillyness. And I don’t know if this is true, but can someone confirm for me that Joe/Dante THC is high/low city? Because it really seems that way.

For Strange, he gets very strong lockdown, easy peasy setups for grace fields, crossup confirms into lewps if you have that Maziodyne execution, and really overwhelming zoning sequences with jam session (free eye every time, basically just have shit in their face all the time forever and crossup within that whenever you feel like it), and Dante, if he ever comes in (vishanti to devil trigger DHC = :3) gets bolts for good zoning, crossups, whatever you need. Also the THC is pretty hot. Gives Missiles a run for it’s money as far as Strange’s best assist is concerned.


At 3:00 there’s an example of said crossups into FoF loops, gains a freaky amount of meter, and maybe he can get an unscaled Joe bomb in afterwards for even more damage off a jam session. 3:30 there’s a similar combo starting from a hit from jam session at SJ height.

If Strange doesn’t want the bomb assist, which he may not want, he’s got a lot of damage already, perhaps an invincible alpha counter into uppercut, would help Strange’s defense close-up, which is one of his major but few downsides.

And Rings super, DHC’ed to Devil Trigger, if done right, is a fun tool against Vergil swords. Vishanti to Devil Trigger, Vishanti blocked to Sex Cannon, safe in, or even Dodge-Mach Speed through something like Akuma beam or Chaotic Flame, and DHC straight to Rings Super, the DHC synergy is off the hook. I wonder if you could even Rings through a bionic arm, and then DHC to Devil Trigger when Spencer’s invincibility when Spencer’s in recovery, full combo punish.

And the jam durability can help battle missiles and/or morrigan, at least it seems to work in theory.

For damage, Strange second allows for a TAC into FoF loops, or a DHC to bomb-fueled Counter Super, and as Cranky’s tech videos show, hitting with the top of that DHC allows FoF loop followups. Cranky sets them up mostly with missiles, but you can do so without, then use jam session to extend at the end of the FoF loop. Lemme see if I can find the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGiXOuKjkB8 (at 1:30 he uses a combo that doesn’t set up the counter, and just does an empty rings DHC into lewps. Replace Missiles extension with Jam Session there and that would be a very practical, damaging combo).

It can outzone a lot of popular shells, it covers the ground, sj height and low jump height with overwhelming dominance, and bolts and jam counters missiles and drones better than most other tools (thought any drones team will not be a problem with this dream team). It can rush when Joe’s alive, and the other two have teleport crossups and assists that make it safe. It’s hard to block or move if this team is played just right. Honestly, in zoning, high/low game, space control, damage, matchups, all that jazz, this team is probably up there for one of the top Joe teams, in my theory brain, and, I think, if given to a top player, who uses/knows all the available tech with this squad, one of the top 5 teams in general.

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it, for anyone who managed to get past this daunting textwall, kudos, and please tell me if I missed anything/am horribly off base. I normally love thinking random theory teams through, but I usually keep the ranting to either myself or a few online buddies who are equally ranty. I don’t play a good Joe or Dante, and my Strange is just starting to come into his own as a pretty okay anchor, but I swear if I played two out of the 3 in this team, it would be all I would learn and lab, forever. [/details]

404

I read the whole thing, and was playin joe strange dante yesterday, and am about to in a few min (with plasma possibly 2nd as well, still debating). Ill reply more thoroughly tomorrow, but this is a great start. I really think the key is red vooms covering cooldown times, and assists covering red vooms. Main isssue w/ this are the ex seizmos and invincible moves that don’t care how clever we are. But then I spose it becomes a baiting game.

405

Hmm. I must admit I thought about this at some point, but I’m definitely lacking in Strange/Jam knowledge. Definitely sounds really legit. I gave the Joe/Bolts/Missiles team an honest shot, but I just reallly don’t wanna play Doom anchor. I need to zone, not get zoned.

Do you know if there’s a way to set up Joe Bomb > DHC > Rings without the missiles OTG?

406

It was on one of the video links, just Sex cannon real high up and DHC to a whiffed Rings, then something and loops. I forget the specifics, because I can’t lab it at the moment (shame, because I am really wanting to)

407

Snip

Thats what i said b4…but forgot to mention all the major details and the vids…but you outlined it all :smiley:
And no from what i have lab’ed with this team you cant Bomb DHC Rings, unless you Raw Bomb in to 6 Cannon in to Rings. you cant actually combo into it. The resion y i dont like the dante team is that…you have to play Dante Anchor which i believe isnt that great, and Doom is way more scary than that. Plus Dante is a hard to learn character if you want MAX damage off all of his combos. You have to always think of the back up plan if joe gets blown up in the first 5 seconds thanks to a Wolverine or a Zero. Coz not every game you have to rely on joe for the wins. Would you rather play an easy lvl3 character like doom? or a lvl3 Dante where you have to work quite hard to get the kills?

408

Here’s the great thing, though. Xf3 dante is CAKE, and way way WAY better than anchor doom. I stopped playing dante for the reasons you said, until I was shown that anchor/xf dante is just orders of magnitude easier to kill with. You don’t even need bold cancels, technically, if you don’t care about looking a lil scrubby lol if it helps I can link you to the vids that show the mega easy xf3(and 2) dante kills.

So its a win win. I won’t play dante unless he’s anchor, for the ease and power, and I only want em for jam session. Perfect! Lol

Edit: man I am just loving this team thru and thru. And while you can choose to take my word for it or not (I’m not a name player or anything), dante in xf vs doom as xf… its not even close to close for doom. Even if it were, though, jam session is just too good for joe and for strange, it would be worth the extra work even if there was extra work.

Additional thing I’m toying with: dp+M into stuff… like, on block. Seems relatively safe unassisted (please correct me if that’s wrong), definitely safe assisted. And you can air dash or jump or jS after. I wouldn’t do it a lot, but it seems like a decent option to initiate pressure.

409

Dante definitely seems like a lot of work, especially when the XF runs out, but I dig him, and I agree he’s a solid anchor.

A M Upper is -5 on block, and if you do it during a ground string, most people will try to grab it, but you always have time to tech. If they don’t try to grab, or don’t pushblock for some reason, just fall on their head with an H or S and start another string. It becomes unsafe when you whiff it, or if they block it in the air, so look out for that. There’s a little bit of a mindgame involved though, because if the opponent knows you’re looking to tech a throw after they block an Upper, they can press a button when you’re on the way down (Dormammu st.H for example) hoping to punish your tech attempt. Nothing you can’t react to, just something you might run into.

410

Yeah, had a feeling air grab might be the main thing to look out for, kinda like a Taskmaster Spidey Swing.

It’s certainly going too far to just say Dante anchor overall is easy, but what I was delighted to learn was that his XF (3 in particular) combos can be really easy. I’ve sort of distilled them into a thick goopy scrubby concentrate, but you can basically do day 1 vanilla type launch, Killer Bee, DT (XFC if you’re not XF yet) relaunch, then sjMH xx Thunderbolt x 3, jS, land, Fly, Thunderbolt up to 7 times OTG. They’ll likely be dead wayyy sooner than this.

There are ‘better’ variants, obviously, but basically w/ the mindset that you’re gonna give 'te the XFC, his combos can kill EXTREMELY easily. I feel strong w/ his neutral, which does take some practice obv, I just suck at his non-XF combos. So learning about all his XF3 options was just fantastic.

411

Thats fine man i value your opinion. If Dante anchor gets you those W’s go for it! Personally if it was Vanilla Dante, id highly recommend it because he has amazing damage and combo ability.

You can always L.Upper, its less punichable to a throw but i kinda find it harder to combo into. Just dont be to obvious, its alwasy a high/low mix up with joe, you just gotta lock em down first.

412

I posted it awhile ago I believe.
The goal is to carry them closer to the ground so you do. ~S, j.H xx air joe.L, j.H, air joe.L, j.S. bomb.L, df tk six cannon.
Or df xx bomb.L, tk six cannon. Which ever is easier. In corners you dash back.

Anyone know any good Joe/Mags shenanigans?

413

Joe can hard tag from magneto after one hyper grav rep… i haven’t been able to get a huge combo off of it, but its possible. Plus Joe/magneto is good against Morridoom and Zero/Dante helps snipe the assist.

I think we need to compile all of the information we have into 1 thread. because looking for strategies is a pain.

414

Here’s something annoying I learned: Dormammu can block Strange Bolts, and then 2 vooms (intended to protect the Bolts call), and still pop Strange with the Chaotic. Definitely be wary of a Dorm not within striking range. Anyone have any good general Joe tips vs a Dorm? I’m going to go ahead and assume it’s one of our problem matchups, but I’d love to learn if that’s not the case.

415

joe is actually one of the best characters in the game in protecting hidden missiles. That bomb is 99pts of low durability you can trigger on reaction combined with voomerang loops. I just let the bomb ride near my doom and if they projectile him, I can just blow it up and missiles keep riding. If they run in and try to pop doom, I just let the bomb explode and get a combo.

honestly surprised more people don’t do it more but it will become the standard sooner or later. I think because you have to hold a button and then maintain playing, no one has ever fucked with it that hard but its got to be one of the best tools in the game IMO.

416

Yeah Strange stays out there for a long time, I’m not too surprised. Back when I used Hawkeye arrows, the pressure from that assist and airdashing Vooms was too tight for Chaotic Flame to come out. All I can say about the Dorm matchup, is that you gotta stay in that ass. Dorm has options against Red Vooms, so you can’t really get away with that either. Pretty much your horizontal assist of choice is a huge factor in this matchup, keep him locked down as often as possible, try not to let him get charges. Dorms like to super jump up back, fly, and get charges, keep him at bay with Vooms at super jump height when he tries to do that. At the right range, super jumping and falling on him covered by a M Voom can be a good option. I usually go for the Slow super on Dorm also, he’s pretty boned at that point.

417

While Bomb is very good, that strategy will not work against fast tridash characters that have beams… or teleporting characters. Especially against Magneto. Using missiles you have to rely on a knockdown to get Joe’s Red Voomerangs started. if Joe gets hit the bomb explodes and hits either Joe or Doom or both, Into combo or THC. Dead Doom and most likely a dead Joe. I’m not saying Doom is terrible for Joe, I’m saying it can’t be on Joe’s best team because its generic. Missiles are derpy by themselves, they don’t do anymore for Joe than they do for other mobile zoners, (i.e Trish, Zero, etc.)

EDIT: Doom is a good fallback for people who don’t know how to fight Joe.

418

Man cold star is SO SICK for joe. Only ‘prob’ is that seems to suggest doom 2nd. And while I def ain’t mad at plasma beam, I will really miss the dhc to strange sov. Experimenting w/ joe strange ammy, which might be sweet, but jam session is just so great for strange. Hrm…

419

Yeah man, definitely one of his top assists, I would rate Joe/Plasma Beam/Cold Star as a top 3 team for Joe as well. I used to run Joe/Ammy/Hawkeye… it was ok, but the natural progression was Joe/Doom/Ammy and my hate for Doom outweighed my love for The Dog :\ I still feel like Jam Session does a lot of the same things Cold Star does, mixup wise though. But Jam is better for incoming setups and zoning in general, so it wins in my book. Shopping Cart shares a lot of properties of Cold Star too. I’ve heard Strange/Ammy have tons of tech, that would definitely be worth looking into.

420

There are a lot of good Ammy shells, all of which presumably mesh well with Joe point.

Doom/Ammy, Strange/Ammy, RR/Ammy especially would be fun (that shell is crazy underrated). Hell, it might even make Task/Ammy a viable shell, Joe can definitely make good use of forward and up arrow assists, Task can probly swing and arrows with Voom for quick dash across the screen, and Ammy means taskblockables. Hopefully Voom picks up off Task throws, and that sounds solid. Trying to think of other viable middlemen. Magneto? Assist synergy is there, so’s the derpy infinite, but the DHC…not sure.