I’m a new Rose player and there is a decent Vega player in my community so I was wondering about the Rose/Vega match up. Like how should I approach Vega, what ultra is best against him.
Since 12:00 is not here yet, i decided to waste a little bit of time writing some notes about Rose’s matchups and tech before I’m SFxT bound.
1: vs Seth: I think it’s almost even, just slightly in Seth’s favor because of how good his focus is. But even with all his mixups, he can’t afford to guess wrong and while you might have to take a few gambles the risk/reward is in your favor. You need U1 though.
-The best point in the screen is a little outside s.fk range because you can slide under fireballs on reaction(he can’t do U1 while the fireball is still on the screen), and you can still reflect at this range(if he chooses to do U1 the reflected fireball will hit him first, watch for ex lighting legs though). This is also his primary jump range, and you can EX ST, U1, and s.fp on reaction based on distance. With f+fk and spirals you can force him to make a move.
-U1 is excellent against him because if you guess right on a mixup you can punish him to take half his life. Plus besides punishing jump ins, if you are just inside his fp you can punish sonic booms with it(his recovery on fireballs is slower than most(you can also do this against Guile if you can predict it…even if he recovers you only get for 50 damage, low risk/high reward)).
-Remember that while you can ex spiral through the untrue c.mk xx sonic boom block string, c.mk xx tandem will grab you. U1 will beat both options.
-fun fact: you can ex spiral “through” his U1 if you time the invincibility frames when the vacuum hits you. You won’t be able to punish him unless you are point blank when you do it though.
2: s.fp: I posted about this in the Facebook group, but s.fp is a great normal because not only is it great for beating empty jumps, it beats normals and other things that Rose’s standard pokes lose to at the right distances(such as Honda’s s.fp and headbutts, Sagat’s s.mk, Blanka balls, etc). It does this because unlike Rose’s other pokes, her hurt box is moved backwards from where she was when she does it. For instance, Rufus likes to do s.lk, s.fp xx heavy tornado to push you in the corner, then keep you there with c.lp. If you predict this and do s.fp, the c.lp will whiff and you’ll punish him.
3: vs Bison: So…i found out something cool. No matter how deep you block Bison’s scissor kick in the corner, if you walk backwards when you recover his c.lk, c.mk, and s.lk will whiff. Bison has to walk forward to get the c.lk to connect, which gives you more frames to counter him(or he can use slide, but its suicide). This works better in the middle of the screen of course. This makes the match effectively in your favor because he has less chances to pressure you, while the increased range of f+fk and spirals keep him in check at far away).
4: vs Sakura: you can c.lp between her c.lk xx short shunpuu if you can predict it, THEN you can dash under her while she air flips to escape the corner. Of course you have to worry about c.lk, c.fp block strings and the like, but if she does rapid fire links like c.lk, c.lk, the c.lp jab wont appear and you won’t get countered. It’s a very small thing that you probably wont use, but its something.
See you guys in the Julia forums!
When Guile throw a slow Booms from the other end of the screen and walk to me , how should I react it?
Sorry, I 'm just a beginner.
You should reflect either upward or at him or jump fierce to try to beat him in an air-to-air situation.
thanks for your advice,
May I ask some basic question on combo?
Rose 's basic combo cr.lp> cr.lk> cr.mp> 236lk
why the cr.lp can be link to the cr.lk? (The frame table telling that the cr.lp +3frame on hit but the cr.lk startup 4 frame…)
Is cr.lp can be cancel by the other cr.lp also it can be cancel by cr.lk too?
How to deal with a Ryu that almost not using fireball and only try to get closer very carefully?
thanks
The cr.LP isn’t linked into cr.LK, it’s chained. Cr.LP can also be chained into itself, yes.
If Ryu isn’t throwing fireballs and simply advancing at Rose, she can still keep him out with her superior footsies. Don’t be scared to walk up towards Ryu. Her pokes outrange his and Ryu doesn’t have any reliable way to get into his optimal poking range. St.MK will be your poke of choice in this matchup because it beats Ryu’s cr.MK and has great range. His only option against st.MK would be to try and stuff it with cr.MP, which loses to Rose’s st.HK. Rose has a lot of options for footsies in this matchup. Just avoid doing unsafe slides and you’ll be fine since it can easily be punished with cr.HK on whiff or SRK on block.
Thanks, May I ask a bit more on the chain cancel?
In the Rose frame table, some light attack stated with (ch cancel ability), close stand lp, far stand lp and cr.lp.
Is that means those attack can be canceled by Any light attack without restriction on standing or crouching?
thanks
There are some restrictions. Basically the canceled normal must be weaker than the normals that cancels it. For example, cLP is weaker than cLK. You see it when whiffing a crouch-tech, the computer always goes for the stronger option => a cLK comes out). Some normals can be canceled into themselves (chained), like Rose cLP.
The only use I see (except for P-linking, karathrows and others things like that) in actual fight with Rose is cLP into another cLP, or cLP into cLK.
Rose’s sLP or fsLP have less advantage on block/hit, and are 4 framers (slower than cLP) so I don’t see the point in using them anyway.
I you wann’a test this, just go into the lab and try mashing them : if you can get a combo by inputing a second normal before waiting the finish of the first one, then they are either chained or canceled. If you have to wait a slight delay for the second normal to come out, then it’s a regular link. =)
I would say yes because it helps escape some Adon stuff buff if adon is doing a low jaguar kick then it will hit you so you must not abuse it
Anyone got any tips for Cammy please? It seems the only reason I’m winning/almost winning is because they do unsafe dive kicks on my wakeup and I ex soul throw. But yeh would be appreciated 
A rule of thumb when asking for advice: it helps to specify what exactly you need help and feedback on. Are you having trouble blocking Cammy’s mixups, getting in on her, keeping her out or what? If you want other people to help you, you need to be clear on what you specifically need help on. Not here to give you a hard time, just pointing that out.
That being said, I don’t have a lot of Cammy experience but I do know a few things. EX Soul Throw is your most reliable AA against Cammy but you need to space it very carefully. Cammy has a far-reaching jumping normal in j.HK, which can beat EX Soul Throw unless Rose does it very late. Focus Attack is probably your safest AA option but also the least rewarding. Air-to-airs are probably also decent options against Cammy. I haven’t tested them them myself but I’d recommend using j.MK and j.HK, which have the longest horizontal hitboxes amongst Rose’s air normals.
If Cammy goes for an uncrouchable Hooligan Combination setup (the only one I recognize is Cannon Spike into Hooligan but she probably has many more), you can beat it by mashing on cr.LP.
Cammy has frame trap setups out the ass so until your opponent shows he wants to throw you, you’re better off blocking.
Blocking Cannon Strike standing will leave you in less blockstun than if you blocked it crouching.
Learn to recognize her meaty Spiral Arrow setups, where she can put you in a crude 50/50 (throw or dp).
Cammy seems to lose a lot of momentum if you can block well, so if you can do that, you’ll definitely be set. Not the most helpful piece of advice but it’s something to keep in mind.
That’s all I’ve got for now. I’ll let someone more knowledgeable take it over from here.
There isn’t a lot of things to add to what Heavy Mental said, but :
— Indeed, avoid cHP against her dives, she has incredible priority on them
— You have enough time to dash + cMP LK Spiral all her DP’s on block (if not cHP LK Spiral). I’m having a lot of trouble punishing opponents landing further than cMP range, so I had to think about it recently
— Zone her carefully, she has a lot of tools to punish predicted projectiles (Hooligan combination, Spin knuckle). So I would use more pokes than sparks here. Rose’s pokes are better than hers, use them.
— cLK + throw or cK cMP Spiral against predicted spin knucles
— 5 framer invincible reversal : can be safe-jumped without problems. Careful with frame-traps B’nBs, though.
Overall, to face a good Cammy you would have to have a solid defense. So good blocking most of the time, and watching carefully for the moments where she likes to throw to back jumps/back dash out of her attacks. She hasn’t much more mix-ups than block low/throw, and if she hasn’t EX dives stocked returning to contact would be a big risk.
I have big problems in the gen matchup. Because of his normals. Andy tips?
Thanks, and yeh i sort of forgot about specifying since its just generally clueless for me in this matchup, but not now
Go for it, by all means. The Rose forum would appreciate your help, I’m sure.
Thx for your thoughts, zangief2000. I’m was still struggling against Blanka’s versus, so your tips will help.
The only thing is that it is very U1 oriented, and that I’m not fond of that ultra at all. Not tip for hori ball punishment for U2 adepts ? =D
The other, is cMP beating balls… I will try this, but I’m not confident in the timing unless Blanka starts from fullscreen. If you trade, it’s 100 of damage for him, and only 60 for you. But I will try, nevertheless.
Thx anyway.
Continuing here Guy’s MU discussion :
In fact if you have a youtube account and not a google+ (I think), you can’t neither view the original files, nor view the link. Strangely by signing out of Youtube… you get the link. I’m not fond of google’s intrusive policy anyway… X_X
I read the MU you wrote. I agree with most of it, and there are useful tips in there.
But there is a point over which I disagree, regarding Guy’s footsies. And I think it’s related to the normals I use to get in, which differs from most Roses. You said that his sMP and sMK would priorize over Roses crouched normals, such as cMP. It is true that Rose’s cMP won’t beat those, and most Roses use it to poke. However, I never had problems with those, 'cause I never use cMP to get in, but cMK : it has sligtly more range, would go under a lot of standing attacks (including Guy’s main footsies), and if not canceled is still positive on block.
Furthermore, Guy’s offensive core (normals and target combos) are standing ones, meaning he will have trouble in crouched battles or against low hitting normals.
So I don’t see what Rose could envy to Guy in footsies departement… aside of easier links. ^^
That is strange. Not sure what I can do about it though.
Priority doesn’t exist in this game. Guy’s st.MP and st.MK beat Rose’s crouching normals because their ground hurtboxes are too small for most of her crouching normals to hit. I think you are correct about cr.MK however and are definitely right about Guy’s best pokes being his standing ones. I’ll make the necessary changes.
And finally, Rose has nothing to envy about Guy’s footsies, why would you suggest that?
Good stuff on the Blanka matchup. I’ll be sure to the writeup.
Mmmmh, that’s an idea. ^^
Put your text into spoilers in the first post ? post them farther in the topic and just link then in the first post ?
Because Guy isn’t a footsies based character. If you’ve seen the match of Daigo vs Alex Valle Ryus, they play pure footsies most of the time. And what do they use to do this ? cMK, sometimes canceled into hadoken, sometimes canceled into much bigger attacks. And sweeps for whiff punishes. It is those moves that define the footsies of a character, 'cause they will determine the range within your can prevent the opponent to walk, and the range within you can attack him relatively safely.
Guy’s cMK has terrible range, and isn’t cancelable. His sweep his horribly risky, and does not always knockdown. Good luck to play footsies with him. ^^
Guy’s strategy relies about getting-in once, and staying in then. He has the tools to do that, with incredibly ambiguous jumps and even unblockables. To achieve that, he has bait & punish strategies, and his sMK is only designed to make the opponent lose their patience, nothing more.
At the opposite, IMO, Claw’s footsies are exceptional ; and Rose’s ones are good. Better than Ryu’s at least. =)
Thanks for telling me nothing I didn’t already know.