You CAN throw fireballs at him, simply you have to do it at the right range, i.e. from far away - and use charged fireballs only of course, he has nothing that can go through 3-hits fireballs.
The rule with Gief is simple: you either get in and stay in or you stay out, there’s no middle ground because whiffing stuff inside his SPD range means death, and almost every move you have can make you step into it.
The thing is, its not hard for gief to see you charging a fireball and then simply dash up s.roundhouse. Also once he has V-trigger you cannot fireball at all unless you’re in V-skill and even then its risky. Thought that applies to all fireball users.
I agree with this. Sure, you could throw a full screen charged fireball but it won’t make it to him and it’s not intimidating so what’s the point? Maybe if you’re just trying to sit on a life lead. Still a bad idea if he’s anywhere near you and has v trigger. I wish one of Laura’s normals looked more like her fireball startup so you could bait him. Sweep will beat his s.HK but you can only get away with that so many times and I don’t feel like you get a lot for that knockdown. I get really mad Laura has such horrible range on her grabs and he can SPD from ranges that don’t even make sense in the animation, not that that’s anything new for Gief. I also agree that jumping is probably your best bet, but lets not forget he does have a decent anti air jab, an air command throw, and his hit absorbing move to worry about. He’s bound to get buffs whenever they do a balance patch and I only hope they give Laura something that can help her keep up in this match so it doesn’t become a complete shut out.
I hate Wolfkrone’s Laura. He gets away with so much dumb stuff it’s unbelievalble. All his random overheads can be punished with SPD and yet for some reason he manages to land 90% of them. Normally that’s a move you don’t want to use against Gief but he does and throws them out like they’re on sale.
Same with the command grabs. One jab or EX SPD and you’re screwed but again, he makes them work. Maybe I’m just salty because whenever I do those things, they don’t work, but I wouldn’t take his style in this matchup as an example to follow.
If he has VT doesn’t it mean he’s already almost dead?
I agree though that she needs to be able to fake the fireball. Why not giving her the ability to cancel the fireball charge, a bit like Viper’s seismos? That would make sense with the character build. Actually that alone would probably make her 50 times more scary in general.
Btw about Urien:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5Z7Lh31xSg
In this video we see Gootecks beating a few different Lauras pretty bad… well, the first ones seem pretty bad and they don’t seem to know the MU at all, but I think there are lessons to be learned here. I also noticed he systematically EX headbutts her in neutral, something he doesn’t do against other characters, which is definitely a thing we should pay attention to when he has meter.
I would love that!
Yeah Ive definitely noticed that alot of Uriens are also DP happy. It’s so easy to bait at this point. But its so weird that her cr.mk makes it whiff. Also, does his CA have a bunch of start-up frames? I knocked an Urien down and dashed in to get a throw, but when activated it I held the back button and I was blocking the entire thing.
And as for the Zangief issues, f%#k him. Seriously, f$@k, him. But here’s a vid that shows a Laura doing decent against him.
His CA is 6 frames of startup, it’s pretty fast even if slower than many other ones. You were probably on the ending frames of the throw whiff animation (I don’t know how much it is really).
Talking about other things, what’s your opinion about Juri after two months? Now that I’m starting to play people who really main Juri I must say she’s much a better MU than I thought. She looks like she can be bullied by pretty much all of Laura’s buttons and all her “good” options look pretty gimmicky… Maybe these Juris weren’t that good, but the same players can beat me easily when they pick Cammy or Chun, which means she’s at least worse than them. At these point I’m not even sure she’s an unfavorable MU.
Ah Juri. Well, me personally, I still think it’s in her favor. Her normals are better than Laura’s, the DP can still cause Laura to back off, and she has ways to completely punish you for trying to fireball since Laura’s is really slow. Add to the fact that Juri is quite slippery. Her being able to charge her fireballs and still back dash and run away makes it strenuous. And her AA options crush Lauras attempts, especially with that AA jab.
However, I think you worded it perfectly. For Laura shes in the Cammy and Chun squad, but as you said shes the worst one. While Juri has alot of tools, it seems that Laura can still hang as long as she stays on her toes. Punish a DP? Ultimate Hell can be unleashed because there are 30 other things her metered DP can be used on since only EX is the worthwhile one. I find Juri more so as an annoyance that just a S.O.L. issue. Plus as I stated before almost every Juri is just throwing after every turn, so that can be aggrivating.
Honestly, Im leaning still towards a 4-6 just for the tools she has, but it’s definitely a very winnable fight if you make sure you dont do anything extremely stupid. The moment you CC a DP from her she’ll rarely want to try that again. 4.5-5.5 is what I believe.
Against urien if you’re playing one that mashes non charged st.hp or st.mk. you can punish with your super on block. Good for ending matches.
Okaaaay so the Laura thread is a little dull right now. Let’s reeve this back up. @OceanMachine, @Los, @Tiers4Fears, @Maryokutai, @NaokiB4U, @Alkipot, and whomever other Laura mainers out there, how do you finally classify the total DLC matchups for Laura since theve been out for a couple of months? Any tips and tricks have yall found?
I’ve not been playing SF5 a lot lately for a few reasons so my MU knowledge of Urien didn’t grow up that much. Here’s what I think though:
Worst MU: Guile
We all agree on that and I don’t think we need to explain why again.
Best MU: Balrog
Again, this is acknowledged by both Rog and Laura players, no need to talk about that a lot.
About the other ones:
Alex - not much to say about this, except that the two characters have similar toolsets, but I think Laura has better oki and the fireball stops him from doing too many random full screen elbows on top of putting a stop on his longest pokes. He on the other hand gets that deadly AA jab… I dunno, I think it’s still balanced, even if I and a few Alex players feel Laura has a very slight advantage.
Ibuki - This is probably the funniest MU amongst DLC characters. It’s both balanced and unbalanced - balanced because both you and your opponent will go for mix-ups and burst damage, unbalanced because they get to their end by totally different means. Kunais pretty much stop all zoning and even your H bolt, but that means she has to engage with you in footsies where your better buttons can give her issues. Even if she’s much more frail than you she can get a full comeback on VT if you don’t pay attention. Overall I like this a lot.
Juri - My doubts about her aren’t really ending. All good players I know that play Juri a lot and consider her as their main or sub just stopped using her against me and bring out Cammy instead… her buttons look good on paper, but I can still bully her in neutral for the very simple reason that mine are longer and that she gets no significant pressure without her fireball which she has to store first. Maybe it will take a REALLY long time for some player to really figure her out, yet I still fail to see her potential anywhere.
Urien - as I said I probably have more experience as Urien than against him, but I generally think this is a pretty balanced MU. His most fearful tool are undoubtedly the headbutts, as they go over your lows and recover so fast it’s almost impossible to react to a whiffed one, and of course the EX version is also a reversal that adds linear pressure even more than giving him a wake-up option. Knee drops, tackles and fireballs don’t seem much of an issue for me, you can either AA or reply with similar tools. I’m envious though of how many tick throws he gets and how fucking fast he can move through the screen for being such a huge character. I think it’s a 5-5 and maybe with more experience like @zektback I will see more the advantages of Laura here.
Totally agree about Juri, Balrog and Urien.
Guile seems like having a more patient approach helps a lot. I’ve done ok by just blocking booms and walking him to the corner. Not an easy mu as you have to play it in a way Laura doesn’t play usually.
Alex seems balanced. Both characters do solid damage but as Alex I can wreck Laura due to his superior mid range. St/cr MK, cr mp have amazing reach vs Lauras buttons. Vs Alex I know that once I’m in it’s gonna be hell to get me off him. Her st mp and cr mp work the shit outta him close up.
Ibuki I don’t feel is in Lauras favour. Sure you can make her explode if you touch her, but that’s if you can get past her free jump in kunai and above average buttons. She’s fast, you can’t throw any claps and she also has a dp. Playing random Ibukis went 50/50 my way or theirs, but playing @deviljin01 I barely took a round. Clearly he’s a better player, but even the guys not on his level gave me a challenge as ibuki. May also just need more experience.
I don’t think Ibuki is positive on block on air kunai. At least I remember that I could challenge her with buttons after she landed.
Against Jin I started by losing sets 1-3, but as I figured out how she plays her I ended up winning more. I agree though that against other online Ibukis it might be as random as a Ken or Mika. But I usually always feel I’m in control of the match against Ibuki and that we’re both trying to see who’s gonna fall for the other’s gimmicks first.
She’s not positive even on hit sometimes, depending on her height i guess.
Ibuki has a dp but she has to spend precious meter that she wants to save for ex kunais.
I think ibuki, juri, and urien are about the same, match up wise. On paper it looks good for them because they have all the right tools to shut you down, but on practice it’s about even
Made it to platinum Yaya.
From my experience the characters I beat easily are the following.
Ibuki 7-3 in favor or Laura
Balrog 7-3 in favor of Lauta
I hardly win against really great Ryu and Chun. Only reason why is because they can control the space with normals or Fireball. At this point I play defensive and make email come to me. When I’m in theit face I get to play my game lol.
Ryu- 3-7 Ryu with a good Fireball ball game is hard to approach. That’s my only grip. Still figuring out a great way to deal with this.
Chun 3-7 if play defensively and 4-6 if play rush. A keep away Chun is a pain. I through fireballs outside her cr.mp and push her in a corner and it because a little better lol. Don’t be predicatable with fireballs though. You can’t get punished by jump in if they react to the fireball.
Karin -4-6 Got to play really patient Get ready to punish her sweep with LP bolt charge because if space properly it can’t be punish but LP bolt charge will nab that broad. Go in and out of he Vskill range and punish on wiff. Use Fireball outside her sweep range, a little outside of. After that just pick your time to advance and it is winnable.
Zangief 5-5 his jab is stupid and we can’t throw fireballs because they can react with st.HP at max range which goes right throw it and hit you. Plus he a grappler omg lol and his v-trigger.
Agreed with the worst and best DLC matchups for Laura. I think its pretty standard now.
Alex: A fun matchup IMO that relies heavily on crazy wakeup mind games on both sides. His c.MP is godly but I’ve managed to play footsies a bit with him using c.MK. Also utilizing c.MK to low profile his jump ins works well and tends to throw Alex players off a bit. Otherwise nothing to say that hasn’t been said.
Juri: She out-pokes you all day but once you get in on her she’s gonna have issues getting out. Since her only reliable wakeup is EX pinwheel you’ll notice a lot of Juri players won’t spam it too often as meter is very useful for her outside of reversals. This obviously leaves her open to our shenanigans. Also most average Juri’s will immediately backdash and start charging at the beginning of the match, so I tend to immediately dash in and attack to prevent that. Be careful of her 3 frame jab as well. Blows up some of Laura’s typical setups.
Ibuki: Strange matchup that honestly just relies on your knowledge of Ibuki’s mixups. If you can figure those out its a pretty even matchup. Yes her kunai blows up thunder clap but she has a limited supply of those. I find it better to start jumping/dashing in when she gets comfy zoning/refilling over and over. Her normals are just as stubby as Laura’s so really its a fair fight in regards to playing footsies. s.MP also works really well against Ibuki’s overhead once you practice seeing it coming.
Urien: Been noticing a lot more Urien players in the upper ranks (I’m Ultra gold ATM). Other thatn what’s been said I’m noticing they are taking the path that Ocean pointed out Gootecks was doing in consistent EX headbutts to blow stuff up. This always leads to follow ups and mixups so I realize now we really gotta be careful against those headbutts. However if spaced properly I believe you can low profile the headbutt using c.MK at a certain distance. I’m not 100% sure on this but I did it a few times in some online games and it seemed to work, I need to try it in the lab to be sure. A winnable matchup for sure. A bit challenging if you’re trying to out-footsie him.
7-3 against Ibuki is a lot still. Can you develop why you think it’s in Laura’s favour?
I agree on Ryu though which I think more and more is one of her thoughest MUs. When I’m fighting a good Ryu I feel like he’s judging everything I do, ready to deny every move I do, like “who the hell you think you’re gonna mix-up?” It’s also less funny in general than Chun or Guile.
And I still think Karin is a pretty close MU. It kinda feels like a mirror match most of the time and she can’t just win by doing st. MK or sweep either. As long as you don’t fall for her frame traps and you stick buttons through the gaps in her false strings it’s very doable.
Hmm well for one Ibuki’s keep out game isn’t that strong. We can punish her reload from a screen 2/3 away maybe even full screen with bolt charge
You can also react to her kunai with ex bolt charge from half a screen away
They rely on her low crush move to much. And st.MK shuts her from my experience.
Ryu and Ken are just fucking ridiculous. They really dont have to respect anything you do as Laura. If Laura barely recieves anything, Id be fine if those two got nerfed to hell. Im sick of the only strategy being “Bait The DPs!” #rantover